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Old 05-17-2018, 04:57 PM   #16
Thorsten
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Do you think Flightgear will ever support the ability to allow a complete ISS rendezvous mission from launch, to docking, to landing, all in a single scenario?
Yes - I hope some time this year. The pre-requisite I needed was a fast way to reproduce the orbital dynamics of JSBSim - that now exists with the LEO targeting code - so I 'just' need to code the numerics for ISS and then work on the targeting code (SPEC 34) and that should be it.

It's not conceptually complicated, just *very* tedious because FG comes with zero helpers for orbital dynamics, so I have to write them all from scratch.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:21 PM   #17
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Nice! I only heard of Flightgear recently. I think I need to download it, and check it out. Since my interest only lies in the STS stuff in Orbiter, when all the parts are in place, it will be another great space diversion.

Tim
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:41 PM   #18
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Hey Tim, it’s actually quite easy with SSU to do orbit inclination adjustements.
First, you have to open Align Planes MFD in a remote MFD to have an idea of Ascending or Descending nodes.

Second, for burn programmation , as you want to change plane only, all the velocity will be added in Y components in OPS 201, item 20.
If you are at a descending node ( DN) , you will have to add a négative Y speed ( minus sign before speed, like -100 ft/ s for example)

If you are at an ascending node, the other way round , positive Y speed

Then for the duration , I don’t remember exactly at how much feet per second is corresponding 0,1 degree of Rinc ( you can try it to have some value in mind)
I think to change 0.1 degree of Rinc, you need 100 ft/s, but to be confirmed

So to sum up, MET is like 00 20 00 00 ( 20 hours in the mission )
You want to change 0.1 degree of Rinc at the next ascending node with ISS in 30 min

Ideally , you would put the burn time to start at half of the burn duration before the node .
You want to do a 100 ft per second burn, oms accélération value is 2 ft per square second, à burn of 100 feet sec is around 50 sec, lets say one minute.
So you want to start the brun 30 sec before the node.

So first, you program in ops 201 with item 10 time of the burn Here it will be at 00 20 29 30 which is at 20 hours 29 mn and 30 seconds into the mission .

Then the value , ascending node so item 20 + 100 to add 100 ft/ sec on y axis.
Then the standard item 22 to load data , item 23 for timer and item 27 with dap in auto to manœuvrer the shuttle in correct burn position .


Then you monitor during the burn the align plane mfd.
It works well , just need to confirm that 100 ft sec is ok for 0.1 degrees ( you can test that by seeing how much Rinc will have change after such a burn and update your tactic )



Concerning flight gear, you will have a lot to learn just for a normal mission. By the time you master it, full rendez might be there

Last edited by Gingin; 05-17-2018 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Gingin View Post
 Hey Tim, it’s actually quite easy with SSU to do orbit inclination adjustements.
First, you have to open Align Planes MFD in a remote MFD to have an idea of Ascending or Descending nodes.

Second, for burn programmation , as you want to change plane only, all the velocity will be added in Y components in OPS 201, item 20.
If you are at a descending node ( DN) , you will have to add a négative Y speed ( minus sign before speed, like -100 ft/ s for example)

If you are at an ascending node, the other way round , positive Y speed

Then for the duration , I don’t remember exactly at how much feet per second is corresponding 0,1 degree of Rinc ( you can try it to have some value in mind)
I think to change 0.1 degree of Rinc, you need 100 ft/s, but to be confirmed

So to sum up, MET is like 00 20 00 00 ( 20 hours in the mission )
You want to change 0.1 degree of Rinc at the next ascending node with ISS in 30 min

Ideally , you would put the burn time to start at half of the burn duration before the node .
You want to do a 100 ft per second burn, oms accélération value is 2 ft per square second, à burn of 100 feet sec is around 50 sec, lets say one minute.
So you want to start the brun 30 sec before the node.

So first, you program in ops 201 with item 10 time of the burn Here it will be at 00 20 29 30 which is at 20 hours 29 mn and 30 seconds into the mission .

Then the value , ascending node so item 20 + 100 to add 100 ft/ sec on y axis.
Then the standard item 22 to load data , item 23 for timer and item 27 with dap in auto to manœuvrer the shuttle in correct burn position .


Then you monitor during the burn the align plane mfd.
It works well , just need to confirm that 100 ft sec is ok for 0.1 degrees ( you can test that by seeing how much Rinc will have change after such a burn and update your tactic )



Concerning flight gear, you will have a lot to learn just for a normal mission. By the time you master it, full rendez might be there

Gingin,

That an excellent response! It confirmed just about everything I was going to try tonight, or tomorrow, and is a great walk through.

I've been using Orbiter for about 15 years now, on and off. I'm surprised I've never heard of using a "remote MFD." I need to search that out!

It's funny you mention how long the FG shuttle might take to learn. I've been flight simming for over 30 years. First with MSFS, and now with X-Plane. I've always flown Boeings in the flight sims. This spring, I bought my first Airbus addon aircraft. I'm still trying to figure out the "Airbus way" when it comes to avionics.

Thanks again, it's appreciated!

Tim
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:51 AM   #20
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It's funny you mention how long the FG shuttle might take to learn.
One has to mention that GinGin actually is into multiple failure scenarios like a launch abort caused by simultaneous failure of two electrical buses. You need an order of magnitude more knowledge about how things work to deal with such scenarios than you need for a nominal mission.

And things like GPC reconfiguration or nav data incorporation I've kept optional because they're very inaccessible - so I hope it's not as bad has he mentions
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:09 AM   #21
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Ahah indeed Thorsten , every time I want to go to orbit something happens to me (
Stick on Boeing Tim ahah.

@Tim ,The « how long » is quite relative. It depends what you are researching. On the extreme side I would say , you can follow the real procedures at 90 % if it’s your cup of tea ( which is pretty amazing , and rewarding because it forces you to have a good understanding of official documentation).
But Thorsten made great helpers in game with checklist, its manual , the wiki ( where you can find nominal procedures and more advanced one if you want to dive more into the real historic stuff, where I even separated steps between hardcore computer simulation, and simplified one), helpful forum.. it’s quite didactic .

You can adapt the level of realism you want to put into , and that’s cool


Concerning the remote mfd, I was talking to the small mfd window you can open in game via settings , remote mfd I think. A sort of Mission Control Center hehe.
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:32 AM   #22
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Its called "ExtMFD" AFAIR....
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:59 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Gingin View Post
 Ahah indeed Thorsten , every time I want to go to orbit something happens to me (
Stick on Boeing Tim ahah.

@Tim ,The « how long » is quite relative. It depends what you are researching. On the extreme side I would say , you can follow the real procedures at 90 % if it’s your cup of tea ( which is pretty amazing , and rewarding because it forces you to have a good understanding of official documentation).
But Thorsten made great helpers in game with checklist, its manual , the wiki ( where you can find nominal procedures and more advanced one if you want to dive more into the real historic stuff, where I even separated steps between hardcore computer simulation, and simplified one), helpful forum.. it’s quite didactic .

You can adapt the level of realism you want to put into , and that’s cool


Concerning the remote mfd, I was talking to the small mfd window you can open in game via settings , remote mfd I think. A sort of Mission Control Center hehe.
Nice to see you back here Gingin
It seems you dropped SSU, I guess you are too busy dealing with catastrophic scenarios in FG Shuttle
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:07 AM   #24
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Hey Wolf , whats up?
Yes back in the time consuming Shuttle world ahah

I am still playing SSU and following the dev. Espcially for rendez vous.
But yes, I am kind of guy who like to play with switches and systems that I read about in all the docs, so I am a lot in FG with Abort nowdays

Awsome work on your HD textures by the way.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:10 AM   #25
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 Awsome work on your HD textures by the way.
Thanks, glad you like them
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:28 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Thorsten View Post
 One has to mention that GinGin actually is into multiple failure scenarios like a launch abort caused by simultaneous failure of two electrical buses. You need an order of magnitude more knowledge about how things work to deal with such scenarios than you need for a nominal mission.

And things like GPC reconfiguration or nav data incorporation I've kept optional because they're very inaccessible - so I hope it's not as bad has he mentions
Truth be told, I think it will be more of an effort to setup, and learn the way things are done in Flightgear, than to transition to orbital ops in the shuttle....lol. I dread learning a new base program, and trying to get it set up to look as good as I see in the posted pictures.

I plan on downloading FG this weekend, and checking it out.

Tim
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:54 PM   #27
Thorsten
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I dread learning a new base program, and trying to get it set up to look as good as I see in the posted pictures.
At least for the setup, I don't think there's much to do except download the hires Earth textures (they're sort of four times the whole repository size and most users don't need them, so they're stored separately) and set the rendering quality sliders / LOD ranges to whatever your computer can still manage.

Being an OpenSource and GPL licensed code has the advantage that a philosophy to merge all good additions into mainline is entirely feasible (the license pretty much guarantees that we can do that for all code developed by 3rd parties) - apart from 3rd party aircraft and a limited selection of 3rd party scenery there's not really much in terms of addons. In that, it's rather different from Orbiter or FSX.

Pretty much all you see in my screenshots is the base program (plus hires Earth textures). Of course you need a gaming-class computer to push the settings up that high...
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Thorsten View Post
 At least for the setup, I don't think there's much to do except download the hires Earth textures (they're sort of four times the whole repository size and most users don't need them, so they're stored separately) and set the rendering quality sliders / LOD ranges to whatever your computer can still manage.

Being an OpenSource and GPL licensed code has the advantage that a philosophy to merge all good additions into mainline is entirely feasible (the license pretty much guarantees that we can do that for all code developed by 3rd parties) - apart from 3rd party aircraft and a limited selection of 3rd party scenery there's not really much in terms of addons. In that, it's rather different from Orbiter or FSX.

Pretty much all you see in my screenshots is the base program (plus hires Earth textures). Of course you need a gaming-class computer to push the settings up that high...
Well, this might be easier than I thought then. If all I need is the hi-res earth textures, then that should be pretty straight forward.

I just got a new gaming PC a month ago, so I should be good to go. Might have to offload a little Ortho4XP to make some room though....LOL.

Tim
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Old 05-20-2018, 10:45 PM   #29
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@Gingin: I gave the RInc correction process a go today, and it worked well. Thanks for taking the time to respond to me, it's greatly appreciated.

To the devs: The more familiar I'm becoming with SSU, the more I'm enjoying it. Thanks for putting it together, and continuing to work on it. It's very cool to still be able to fly the shuttle in 2016. I was saddened when I found out the Shuttle Fleet didn't work in '16, but now it doesn't matter with SSU.

Tim
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