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Backyard Rocketry Model, Amatuer, Experimental, and High Power Rocketry. Vehicle and Motor/Engine Design, Physics and Math, Fabrication, Flights, Testing and Evaluation. Share your rocket projects here!

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Old 04-01-2015, 03:02 PM   #1
Luka Peradze
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Default Creating a Pressure-Fed Liquid Fueled Sounding Rocket

Hello! My name is Luka Peradze and i am a rocketry enthusiast. I have some experience in creating rockets in that i have created 4 solid fueled rockets. I am attempting to make a liquid fueled sounding rocket, which will be pressure fed. I have thought of using Kerosene and the fuel, and liquid oxygen as the oxidizer, however i can change these. I have run into some trouble while designing the Rocket. I will have two tanks inside the rocket one for the fuel and the other of oxidizer. In order to force these into the combustion chamber i was thinking of using compressed gas to force them into the combustion chamber. My issue is that i have a few ideas, but was looking if others had simpler more practical methods of creating the pressure system. I would greatly appreciate if you could help me.

Sincerely,

Luka Peradze
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:33 PM   #2
N_Molson
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Hello,

First, do you have any experience with metallurgy, plumbing and pumps ? Because you're going to need all that.

Liquid Oxygen is extremely hazardous. It is very corrosive and any spill is devastating on organic tissues. It has to be stored at -180C. Also, any spark will ignite the vapors and can potentially feed a very nasty flash-fire.

Robert H. Goddard first experiments are probably the place to start anyways. However, know that his first rocket "which was later dubbed "Nell", rose just 41 feet during a 2.5-second flight that ended 184 feet away in a cabbage field". So solid-fueled rockets will certainly perform better at an amateur scale.

What you might also try is a two-staged solid-fueled rocket. That would be a nice challenge already.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:54 PM   #3
Dantassii
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I suggest you start with solid fuel model rockets, join the National Association of Rocketry, get your level 1 and level 2 and level 3 high power certifications, become an expert at hybrid rocket motors, and then and only then do you think about pure liquid fuel rockets.

You may also want to think about getting a BS, MS, and Ph.D. in Aerospace Engineering.

Dantassii
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BS, MS, Ph.D. Aerospace Engineering, Level 1 high power certified NAR.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:04 PM   #4
fsci123
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I could imagine him being able to make a simple rocket that uses some liquid. A hybrid rocket could possibly be built without expensive components. Someone more knowledgeable should be able to correct me.


Edit-
At the very least he could create a liquid fueled bomb that has a high probability of flying upward.

Last edited by fsci123; 04-01-2015 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:29 PM   #5
Urwumpe
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Why everybody has to start liquid propellants with rockets, there are much less complicated ways to kill you or your neighbors. Jet engines are way less dangerous, despite even small ones already being capable of killing you on a bad day.
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:51 PM   #6
dman
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One liquid fuel pressure fed rocket was the ORTAG designed by German
engineer Lutz Kayser and his team

Do search on ORTAG ........

Rocket used diesel fuel with red fuming nitric acid as oxizider

Fuel tanks pressurized with compressed air which filled 2/3 of tank space

Idea was to use make it cheap and nasty using off shelf parts - valves were
ordinary ball valves. VW windshield wiper moter used to open/close valves

Concept was to cluster number of engines modules togather in ring to generate necessary thrust . Upper stages were clusterred inside of ring.

Alternative fuel would be furfural alcohol with nitric acid which is hypergolic

Nitric acid is extremely corrosive and fumes are highly toxic, but gives advantage of being storable at normal temps

As other posters said messing with liquid fuel rockets are highly complex and
dangerous - what you playing with is a BOMB! So unless have experience
handling such chemicals would not do it
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:50 PM   #7
Dantassii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsci123 View Post
 At the very least he could create a liquid fueled bomb that has a high probability of flying upward.
With all the terrorist threats around the world, someone trying to jump straight to liquid fueled rockets w/out corporate support is going to end up in jail a lot faster than they ever thought possible.

I once saw a report that stated in 1988, more people were KILLED every year from flying kites in lightning than had been injured flying model rockets using the NAR rules and regulations since 1968. 13 people per year killed VS 0 people injured in 20 years. The trick is to get people to follow the rules. Don't follow the NAR rules, and well, you end up severely injured at best, in jail or dead at worst. And there is a really fine line between those 2 ends of the spectrum.

Take it from a rocket scientist, start with the simple stuff and work your way up. You may find much more enjoyment that way, and spend a lot less $$$ also.

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Old 04-02-2015, 12:05 AM   #8
MaverickSawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantassii View Post
 With all the terrorist threats around the world, someone trying to jump straight to liquid fueled rockets w/out corporate support is going to end up in jail a lot faster than they ever thought possible.

I once saw a report that stated in 1988, more people were KILLED every year from flying kites in lightning than had been injured flying model rockets using the NAR rules and regulations since 1968. 13 people per year killed VS 0 people injured in 20 years. The trick is to get people to follow the rules. Don't follow the NAR rules, and well, you end up severely injured at best, in jail or dead at worst. And there is a really fine line between those 2 ends of the spectrum.

Take it from a rocket scientist, start with the simple stuff and work your way up. You may find much more enjoyment that way, and spend a lot less $$$ also.

Dantassii
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Agreed. Liquid fuelled rockets require a lot of care, precision, and more than a small dose of luck at the beginning. That said, getting your feet wet, so to speak, with solid fuel and then hybrids would be a good progression towards a liquid fuelled engine.
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:55 AM   #9
Delta glider
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Keep going with solid rockets-try more stages and you should definatly put some sort of payload on top to register altitude and speed.
Also to forum.

Last edited by Delta glider; 04-02-2015 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:51 AM   #10
Dantassii
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As a side note, a single stage, solid fueled rocket designed and built by members of the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) reached 50 miles up a few years back. It was a custom rocket with a custom motor. These folks all had their level 3 certification through TRA (similar to NAR certifications).

So anything is possible.

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Old 04-02-2015, 03:12 PM   #11
Delta glider
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Wow, but a 2 stage solid could do that and it would be easier.
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Old 04-02-2015, 03:13 PM   #12
statickid
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It's probably an April Fools
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Old 04-02-2015, 03:15 PM   #13
Delta glider
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I think not.
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Old 04-11-2015, 09:03 PM   #14
PenguinMan94
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I'm pretty sure that some people have used oxygen/hydrogen gas rockets acquired from electrolysis although I don't recommended it. I would have to agree that solid-fueled rockets are a whole lot safer on a small scale and cheaper.
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