Orbiter-Forum  

Go Back   Orbiter-Forum > Orbiter Addons > Addon Development
Register Blogs Orbinauts List Social Groups FAQ Projects Mark Forums Read

Addon Development Developers post news, updates, & discussions here about your projects in development.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-19-2009, 02:01 AM   #76
Hielor
Defender of Truth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjl1966 View Post
 When it comes to a local space fight, Star Wars had it right.
As pointed out in this thread, the odds of a "local space fight" are very low to begin with, and even if there were such a fight, there would be no fighters involved--it would all be with larger vessels. We already established earlier that fighters are worthless. Especially if you have laser weaponry, a turret with a laser could easily track and destroy a fighter.

Moreover, star wars uses "star wars physics."

Star Wars has nothing right about space combat.
Hielor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 02:04 AM   #77
Eagle
The Amazing Flying Tuna Can
 
Eagle's Avatar
Default

To make it extra fun, duck around Jupiter or Saturn and their moons. Big thing to get around and lots of places to hide and most moons are small enough to land otherwise space only craft.

Of course both vessels would need drives that don't leave a nice 'I was here, jetting this way' smoke trail.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 04:37 PM   #78
mjl1966
Orbinaut
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hielor View Post
 As pointed out in this thread, the odds of a "local space fight" are very low to begin with, and even if there were such a fight, there would be no fighters involved--it would all be with larger vessels. We already established earlier that fighters are worthless. Especially if you have laser weaponry, a turret with a laser could easily track and destroy a fighter.

Moreover, star wars uses "star wars physics."

Star Wars has nothing right about space combat.
The precision of my allusion is lacking. I was referring specifcally to the use of energy weapons. As for tactical maneuvering, no, Star Wars is pure fantasy. Sad consequence of knowing something about orbital mechanics is it really takes the fun out of those massive battle scenes. ME: "No way they would ever get that close." GF:"Shut up and enjoy the fireworks."

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:01 PM ----------

Getting back to the main thrust of the topic. (no pun intended.):

Can we use orbiter to experiment with space combat tactics? Sure. Even if we theorize that orbital mechanics will preclude tactical maneuvering, we can and should still use the platform to develop and test possible solutions. The exploration itself would be well worth the trouble.

Some things already mentioned that could be implemented in the Orbiter environment include sensor probes, dormant weapons and, of course, energy weps. Everything we need is here except for hit detection, which is trivial coding. (for guys like Schweiger who know how to code things like Orbiter.)

Even though it's the least likely to succeed, I think local orbital combat would still be the most interesting to explore. What are the real problems? What can we try to overcome them? How effective are our solutions? What do we learn in the process?

The paradigm of orbital travel is fuel efficiency, so right now we do everything at peri apo and nodes. What happens when we start increasing thrust vectors, fuel loads and design ships to modify orbital parms at other points besides these three? Just trying to answer these questions and testing the solutions I think would be very interesting. It can't be done, but trying will be a lot of fun. And, who knows, maybe I'm totally wrong. Sure would be cool if I was.

-MJL

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 06:09 PM ----------

Orbiter as is depends on scenarios that include objects ahead of time. It doesn't look like it would (or should for its current purpose) have an instancing routing to create objects on the spot. Projectiles need to spawn with initial vectors and all the physics being applied. energy weps need to be spawned and ray tracing and hit detection. And so on.

-MJL
mjl1966 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 04:54 PM   #79
Eagle
The Amazing Flying Tuna Can
 
Eagle's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjl1966 View Post
 Orbiter as is depends on scenarios that include objects ahead of time. It doesn't look like it would (or should for its current purpose) have an instancing routing to create objects on the spot. Projectiles need to spawn with initial vectors and all the physics being applied. energy weps need to be spawned and ray tracing and hit detection. And so on.

-MJL
The adding a new vessel to a running simulation is very fast if:1)There is already a vessel of the same class which preloaded its mesh and textures, 2) The vessel initialization is relatively short.

Dummy projectiles should have very little built in code besides collision detection, more advanced missiles should probably be preloaded onto hard points of vessels for realism anyways.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 04:55 PM   #80
Hielor
Defender of Truth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjl1966 View Post
 

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 06:09 PM ----------

Orbiter as is depends on scenarios that include objects ahead of time. It doesn't look like it would (or should for its current purpose) have an instancing routing to create objects on the spot. Projectiles need to spawn with initial vectors and all the physics being applied. energy weps need to be spawned and ray tracing and hit detection. And so on.

-MJL
What do you mean? It's trivially easy for an addon to spawn a vessel during a simulation.
Hielor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 06:17 PM   #81
escapetomsfate
OBSP Developer
 
escapetomsfate's Avatar
Default

I've been working on an orbiter combat framework for a while now;
http://escapetomsfate.webs.com/pages/ocf.html

All it does is fire a custom weapon class, and spawn a mesh on explosion. haven't really figured out how to make it actually explode on hit yet.
escapetomsfate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 06:31 PM   #82
Urwumpe
Certain Super User
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by escapetomsfate View Post
 I've been working on an orbiter combat framework for a while now;
http://escapetomsfate.webs.com/pages/ocf.html

All it does is fire a custom weapon class, and spawn a mesh on explosion. haven't really figured out how to make it actually explode on hit yet.
Try it with "Ray-Primitive-Intersection", it is a typical problem in computer graphics and you can get tons of example code for it.
Urwumpe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 06:53 PM   #83
mjl1966
Orbinaut
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
 The adding a new vessel to a running simulation is very fast if:1)There is already a vessel of the same class which preloaded its mesh and textures, 2) The vessel initialization is relatively short.

Dummy projectiles should have very little built in code besides collision detection, more advanced missiles should probably be preloaded onto hard points of vessels for realism anyways.
I think what I'm wondering about is the physics. If a vessel/projectile is spawned, are the current orbital parms applied to it? Will they be updated during its flight? If that's an automatic function of all polled existing vessel objects, then yeah, it should be pretty easy to generate spawn code. But it would have to a modification of the engine, wouldn't it? Or is this something that can be done with the API?
mjl1966 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 07:05 PM   #84
escapetomsfate
OBSP Developer
 
escapetomsfate's Avatar
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Try it with "Ray-Primitive-Intersection", it is a typical problem in computer graphics and you can get tons of example code for it.
I have this so far -

Code:
DLLCLBK void opcPreStep(double simt, double simdt, double mjd)
{
//Iterate through all Weapons.
    for(vector<Weapon>::iterator it=WeaponList.begin();it<WeaponList.end();++it) {
        for(int i=0;i<=oapiGetVesselCount()-1;i++) {
        //Weapon to vessel explosions.
        if(it->GetDist(oapiGetVesselInterface(oapiGetVesselByIndex(i)))<0.5){
            it->explode();
            }
            //Ground to vessel explosions.
        if(it->vessel->GetAltitude()<0.5) {
                it->explode();
            }
    }
        }
}
Where WeaponList is a vector of weapon classes.

That code just doesn't work. The weapon explodes whether it hits the ground or not.

I'll have a look at Ray primitive intersection. It could be useful for collision detection too. (I suppose that is what it is).
escapetomsfate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 07:12 PM   #85
Hielor
Defender of Truth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjl1966 View Post
 I think what I'm wondering about is the physics. If a vessel/projectile is spawned, are the current orbital parms applied to it? Will they be updated during its flight? If that's an automatic function of all polled existing vessel objects, then yeah, it should be pretty easy to generate spawn code. But it would have to a modification of the engine, wouldn't it? Or is this something that can be done with the API?
Yes, all vessels active in the simulation have correct physics applied to them.

I have a "gatling gun" sort of thing which spawns several "bullets" each second, and they're all properly physicsed.
Hielor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 07:14 PM   #86
Urwumpe
Certain Super User
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by escapetomsfate View Post
 I have this so far -

Where WeaponList is a vector of weapon classes.

That code just doesn't work. The weapon explodes whether it hits the ground or not.

I'll have a look at Ray primitive intersection. It could be useful for collision detection too. (I suppose that is what it is).
Yes, but your problem is, that you don't exclude the current vessel itself from the distance calculations. The distance between you and yourself is always 0.
Urwumpe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 07:15 PM   #87
mjl1966
Orbinaut
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by escapetomsfate View Post
 I've been working on an orbiter combat framework for a while now;
http://escapetomsfate.webs.com/pages/ocf.html

All it does is fire a custom weapon class, and spawn a mesh on explosion. haven't really figured out how to make it actually explode on hit yet.
This looks pretty neat! I'll have to give it a whirl. (Eyes dusty old C++ exp installation - ick.)
mjl1966 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 09:16 PM   #88
ar81
Orbinaut
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt M. Weber View Post
 It'd be an interesting exercise to use Orbiter to attempt to predict how armed combat in outer space is likely to evolve. What technological hurdles would need to be cleared before Orbiter can be used to effectively simulate space combat, and then what form is that combat likely to take?
1.Spot the target, calculate trajectory.
2.Launch missile
3.Target is off the grid
That is for interception...
Target will not have enough fuel to evade missiles

For bombing it would be
1.Spend millions building a small base on an alien planet
2.Drop a big rock on it
3.Base is gone, everyone is dead, it is too expensive to build another one.

But the most important... who is your enemy? ET? MIB creatures?
ar81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 09:37 PM   #89
escapetomsfate
OBSP Developer
 
escapetomsfate's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Yes, but your problem is, that you don't exclude the current vessel itself from the distance calculations. The distance between you and yourself is always 0.
Oh yeah.....:/

So something like this?
Code:
    if(oapiGetVesselByIndex(i)==it->objvessel) {} else {
        if(it->GetDist(oapiGetVesselInterface(oapiGetVesselByIndex(i)))<0.5){
            it->explode();
            }
escapetomsfate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 09:41 PM   #90
Eagle
The Amazing Flying Tuna Can
 
Eagle's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar81 View Post
 1.Spot the target, calculate trajectory.
2.Launch missile
3.Target is off the grid
That is for interception...
Target will not have enough fuel to evade missiles

For bombing it would be
1.Spend millions building a small base on an alien planet
2.Drop a big rock on it
3.Base is gone, everyone is dead, it is too expensive to build another one.

But the most important... who is your enemy? ET? MIB creatures?
Of course they're anti missile defense and pushing that big rock out of the way so it doesn't fall on you but then everything just got a bit more complicated.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Orbiter-Forum > Orbiter Addons > Addon Development


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:25 PM.

Quick Links Need Help?


About Us | Rules & Guidelines | TOS Policy | Privacy Policy

Orbiter-Forum is hosted at Orbithangar.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 - 2017, Orbiter-Forum.com. All rights reserved.