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Old 10-17-2010, 12:00 AM   #106
Urwumpe
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I have posted the translation of another chapter of the Sirius IDS description to Orbiterwiki... though it seems to be confusing:

Does somebody know where a switch or button "Контроль ИКП" ("Self-test program control indicator") is?

---------- Post added 10-17-10 at 02:00 AM ---------- Previous post was 10-16-10 at 08:25 PM ----------

I have produced a small translation of the program control indicator (Soyuz 7K-OK version)... for development purposes, would also make some nice manual.



The acronyms in the translation:
Accel. = Integrating accelerometer, more common acronym would be PIPA for NASA spacecraft, but PIPA describes a special kind of integrating accelerometer, not sure if it is the same kind in Soyuz.
GA-A = Gyro assembly A (roll axis)
GA-B = Gyro assembly B (yaw axis)
DCS = Descent control system.
Min = Minutes (M)
RGA = Rate Gyro Assembly
SKDU = Main engine

Entry RGAs are the RGAs installed in the Descent Module, tied into the DCS.

Small explanations or meditation:

"Ends in 105 minutes" seems to indicate that the 85 minute scale is actually a 105 minute scale, and the index moving slower than normal - it places the SKDU burn about one orbit after activating the program.

The "ACTIVE" in "ACTIVE SKDU" is lit when the SKDU is ignited.

Last edited by Urwumpe; 10-17-2010 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:00 AM   #107
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Cool! Now I can understand what that display does I think that your work in translating and understanding the Soyuz panel and systems deserve a dedicated page. Certainly more than a Wiki entry.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 Cool! Now I can understand what that display does I think that your work in translating and understanding the Soyuz panel and systems deserve a dedicated page. Certainly more than a Wiki entry.
Well, as long as I am the only one editing it, and nobody really complaining about it, it can stay one page... I don't want to write a book about it, I want to write an add-on about it.

---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 AM ----------

Might be of interest, this is the account of the Soyuz 9 mission by one of the cosmonauts, Andrian G. Nikolayev.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1973022260.pdf

This was the 18 day Soyuz solo mission, the new endurance record in space in 1970. A bit more poetic than western accounts.

There is also a 820 MB translation of a Russian book about the ASTP there, which I just download for checking it out...

Soyuz 10, in a much shorter way: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1971026712.pdf

Rendezvous in Orbit, about Russian rendezvous targeting: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1973015111.pdf

"From Spacecraft to Spacecraft", about docking Soyuz and Apollo: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1974008421.pdf

"Soviet Soyuz spacecraft", contains good explanations about the OK systems http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1972008128.pdf

Last edited by Urwumpe; 10-17-2010 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:03 PM   #109
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If I was taking up as much personal time as I think you are, I'd create something more than an add-on. A website will get mentioned as a reference in a lot of places, including books, and is a good way to protect your work. Immediate copyright, basically, if the material is original and you are the first to publish it
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Old 10-17-2010, 01:29 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Well, as long as I am the only one editing it, and nobody really complaining about it, it can stay one page... I don't want to write a book about it, I want to write an add-on about it.

---------- Post added at 02:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 AM ----------

Might be of interest, this is the account of the Soyuz 9 mission by one of the cosmonauts, Andrian G. Nikolayev.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1973022260.pdf

This was the 18 day Soyuz solo mission, the new endurance record in space in 1970. A bit more poetic than western accounts.

There is also a 820 MB translation of a Russian book about the ASTP there, which I just download for checking it out...

Soyuz 10, in a much shorter way: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1971026712.pdf

Rendezvous in Orbit, about Russian rendezvous targeting: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1973015111.pdf

great finds. many thanks for those!
do you have the link for the 820mb translation on the ASTP?

cheers and thanks again,
hc
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:01 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by castorp View Post
 great finds. many thanks for those!
do you have the link for the 820mb translation on the ASTP?

cheers and thanks again,
hc
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1985069208.pdf

There it is (Warning, 820 MB is no joke). a 300 page PDF file, as far as I can tell about the description on the NTRS.

About the TV cameras, it looks like that mystery gets solved slowly... one PDF says that Soyuz has four TV cameras in total, two inside the spacecraft (known to be OM and DM), and two outside, one of these was aligned with the docking port. The other was center line below the capsule, on the PM as far as I can tell from the ASTP videos, pointed at the EVA egress hatch.

Interesting fact - the TV cameras on Soyuz had been designed to directly feed into the ground TV networks.

Last edited by Urwumpe; 10-17-2010 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:12 PM   #112
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After some more bad translations, and little coding, I have a tiny mesh change request: Can you change the interrogation antenna on the BO (+Y side) so it can gimbal around a cardan joint? It can gimbal 10 towards the docking port, and 190 towards the engine, as well as +/- 10 to the side.

This gimballing is important, since the Soyuz does a sideway velocity correction during automatic rendezvous, during which the gyro-stabilized antenna keeps on tracking the passive vessel while the spacecraft rotates perpendicular to the orbit plane.

Reference: http://history.nasa.gov/astp/APSYZ-descharac3.PDF

Should be a feature of all Soyuz until today.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:21 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 
Might be of interest, this is the account of the Soyuz 9 mission by one of the cosmonauts, Andrian G. Nikolayev.

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1973022260.pdf

This was the 18 day Soyuz solo mission, the new endurance record in space in 1970. A bit more poetic than western accounts.

There is also a 820 MB translation of a Russian book about the ASTP there, which I just download for checking it out...

Soyuz 10, in a much shorter way: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1971026712.pdf

Rendezvous in Orbit, about Russian rendezvous targeting: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1973015111.pdf

"From Spacecraft to Spacecraft", about docking Soyuz and Apollo: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1974008421.pdf

"Soviet Soyuz spacecraft", contains good explanations about the OK systems http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1972008128.pdf
This post is marked in my favorities, thanks a lot!
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:46 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by SiberianTiger View Post
 This post is marked in my favorities, thanks a lot!
I also collected them here, there are also some more that I didn't update in the post:

http://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Soyuz_7K-OK
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:34 PM   #115
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Nice work on the Wiki

On my end, I'm only missing proper solar panel animations. I've got all the groups identified and for now I'm doing a simple scale animation on them. Not good enough for release in my opinion.

Besides that, the periscope is retractable for reentry, there's a very basic parachute and also the small landing engine on the reentry module.
I've got OK, OKS, T and T-AF configured and launchable.

Besides that, if someone what's to help with RCS placement and detailed animations, I'm all for it. I guess the info (coordinates and mesh groups) will be the same for both my sc3 basic version and for the custom .dll version.
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:54 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 the periscope is retractable for reentry
'all sounds really good, 4throck, but i believe the vzor periscope is ejected during the reentry burn, no?


---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 About the TV cameras, it looks like that mystery gets solved slowly... one PDF says that Soyuz has four TV cameras in total, two inside the spacecraft (known to be OM and DM), and two outside, one of these was aligned with the docking port. The other was center line below the capsule, on the PM as far as I can tell from the ASTP videos, pointed at the EVA egress hatch.
that's interesting and appears to be a variation of the older configuration where both cams were located on the BO (as in the OK-M...)





---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 After some more bad translations, and little coding, I have a tiny mesh change request: Can you change the interrogation antenna on the BO (+Y side) so it can gimbal around a cardan joint? It can gimbal 10 towards the docking port, and 190 towards the engine, as well as +/- 10 to the side.
shouldn't be a problem, but do you have a picture reference for this? 'worth a thousand words... ;-)


---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 This gimballing is important, since the Soyuz does a sideway velocity correction during automatic rendezvous, during which the gyro-stabilized antenna keeps on tracking the passive vessel while the spacecraft rotates perpendicular to the orbit plane.

Reference: http://history.nasa.gov/astp/APSYZ-descharac3.PDF

Should be a feature of all Soyuz until today.

that pdf link keeps returning a not found error...
'have another url for that?

cheers
hc
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:40 PM   #117
Urwumpe
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Try it with that one, the link was obsolete: http://history.nasa.gov/astp/documen...descharac3.PDF

---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

This photograph shows the Igla interrogation antenna with the cardan joint pretty good:




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Old 10-21-2010, 02:42 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 Nice work on the Wiki

On my end, I'm only missing proper solar panel animations. I've got all the groups identified and for now I'm doing a simple scale animation on them. Not good enough for release in my opinion.

Besides that, the periscope is retractable for reentry, there's a very basic parachute and also the small landing engine on the reentry module.
I've got OK, OKS, T and T-AF configured and launchable.

Besides that, if someone what's to help with RCS placement and detailed animations, I'm all for it. I guess the info (coordinates and mesh groups) will be the same for both my sc3 basic version and for the custom .dll version.
Are you guys doing a custom .dll?
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:45 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJR View Post
 Are you guys doing a custom .dll?
I do one, I am currently mostly sitting in the research part... mostly refreshing my memory and getting some translations done.
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:02 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Try it with that one, the link was obsolete: http://history.nasa.gov/astp/documen...descharac3.PDF

---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

This photograph shows the Igla interrogation antenna with the cardan joint pretty good:

{image}

many thanks for both of those. the link works now and that pic is stunning! have any more of that mock-up?
'will fix the IGLA with the cardan joint in the mesh(es).
cheers and thanks again,
hc

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 After some more bad translations, and little coding, I have a tiny mesh change request: Can you change the interrogation antenna on the BO (+Y side) so it can gimbal around a cardan joint? It can gimbal 10 towards the docking port, and 190 towards the engine, as well as +/- 10 to the side.

ok, so which -BO meshes should receive the new IGLA models? and what about the IGLA(s) on the PAO(s)?

also, for the record, you're asking me to increase detail on a model, which of course i'm always happy to do(& alas for my poor modeling skills that can't get the job done more efficiently)...!

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