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Old 08-07-2010, 06:10 AM   #31
Blacklight
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With the right set of addons, we may be able to simulate a theoretical asteroid bombardment with this system eventually. This addon is full of interesting possibilities. Imagine having asteroids that would basicly be ships (or bombs) without engines where you would have to tow them from space to a planet's orbit before de-orbiting them and droping them on a target ! I don't know how the towing would work unless they were designed with docking ports (maybe prior, a weapons crew installed a special dock on the asteroid where the tow cable can be attached or something like that for all the "weaponized" asteroids)

Last edited by Blacklight; 08-07-2010 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 08-07-2010, 06:38 AM   #32
fireballs619
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I am going to start off with a rant, so if you want to go to my suggestioms part, just skip down a bit.

I want to clarify that I think it is great that you are finding a new way to use orbiter, and this way is quite unique. Regardless, I have the firn opinion that you are wasting your time with this. The majority of the Orbiter community, will, at most, give this a go once or twice and forget about it. There has obviously been alot of work involved in making this, but I unfortunately think it will not pay off to its fullest extent. The type of people that Orbiter draws, I think, are not the kind that would fully appreciate this add-on; you would have much better success elsewhere. I hope, however, that I am proven wrong here, as it would be a shame to see such hard work wasted. This will, perhaps, have many good things come of it.

That being said, I would like to offer some suggestions from a critical standpoint. Why not start off with space-combat, instead of ground based. This would capitalize on Orbiter's strongpoint, and perhaps draw in a crowd that is in it for the space-flight manuvers required to dodge projectiles. Second off, how exactly is this going to work? I will assume that it is without multiplayer, since there is no good, solid one out there yet (unless plans are to make your own, in which case the whole project just got way, way to complex). If you are battling the computer, won't a custom AI be needed to make it interesting, instead of shooting lifeless UMMU's. Lastly, are you intending to include some sort of 'campaign'. This would be very boring with no objective.

Anyway, thanks for sitting through my rant (if you did ), and I hope you think about my suggestions. Good luck with this, it will be interesting to see where it ends up!
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:36 AM   #33
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Well, I for one am intrigued to see how a real physics-based simulation of space warfare may be. How the shape of the battle would be determined by orbital parameters, the pros and cons of greater altitude vs greater velocity, the complexity of firing solutions and the overall tactics and strategies a space battleship commander would have to master.
Granted that there is no stealth in space, for instance, the emphasis would be on active defences like CIWS, counter-missiles and getting the drop early on your target so you can engage as soon as possible. It would be a mix of submarine and tank warfare.
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Old 08-07-2010, 08:36 AM   #34
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The type of people that Orbiter draws, I think, are not the kind that would fully appreciate this add-on;
I wouldn't neccesarily say so. I see a lot of people here that apreciate complex combat sims, and if this is done properly, it might be the FIRST EVER hard simulator of combat in space. There's a lot of people here that already thought a lot about this topic, and have their own theories on best tactics how such a battle would be fought. This could provide them with a platform to test their tactics and see how their theories work out in a simulated environment. Just as Orbiter gave as all a better understanding of orbital mechanics and the problems of real spaceflight, this might serve to give a better understanding of the mechanics of space combat and the problems involved therein. I can imagine that it will be quite a learning expieriance, which is something many people on these boards apreciate.

However, I would agree that actual space combat should take priority over ground based combat in developement. After all, there's a lot of ground combat sims out there already, and it will take a lot of work to reach the same level of proficiency in Orbiter (for example, ground combat without terrain is a bit like space combat without gravity: it takes the most influental factor out of the picture).
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Old 08-07-2010, 11:41 AM   #35
T.Neo
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I myself am very eager to simulate space combat, but one must learn to walk before they can run. For interplanetary or even orbital combat navigational aides will have to be integrated into the AI for example, which will take a lot of effort.

Quote:
it might be the FIRST EVER hard simulator of combat in space.
Seconded. There have been plenty of space combat simulators, but they've had the physics of an arcade game. There have also been many space combat simulation boardgames, but they lack a real time, physical aspect (though I haven't played them so it's wholly probable I have no idea what I'm talking about).

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It would be a mix of submarine and tank warfare.
That is an interesting comparison... I never thought to compare space warfare with tank warfare.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:16 PM   #36
RisingFury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireballs619 View Post
 I am going to start off with a rant, so if you want to go to my suggestioms part, just skip down a bit.

I want to clarify that I think it is great that you are finding a new way to use orbiter, and this way is quite unique. Regardless, I have the firn opinion that you are wasting your time with this. The majority of the Orbiter community, will, at most, give this a go once or twice and forget about it. There has obviously been alot of work involved in making this, but I unfortunately think it will not pay off to its fullest extent. The type of people that Orbiter draws, I think, are not the kind that would fully appreciate this add-on; you would have much better success elsewhere. I hope, however, that I am proven wrong here, as it would be a shame to see such hard work wasted. This will, perhaps, have many good things come of it.

Well, thanks for the input, but I think you missed a few features.

As part of OBSP, there will be an AI and a navigational autopilot, which means that you have a way of simulating airports and planes and spacecraft with their own minds. You don't need to shoot at them...

Also, while this thread has shown a few descanting views, most of the responses have been enthusiastic. Regardless of who ends up playing this, WE will.

I grew up in a time of awesome games. Jane's USAF was among my favorites, as are C&C games and MS's Age of Empires. Hostile Waters went one step further, by combining first person control of any friendly vessel, a powerful AI and a strategic overviews of the battlefield. Unfortunately you couldn't control your units in real time from the strategic views.

OBSP is hoping to go one step further. First person control of any vessel, as well as a real time strategic command, in the atmosphere or out of it. I think that has some strong appeal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fireballs619 View Post
 That being said, I would like to offer some suggestions from a critical standpoint. Why not start off with space-combat, instead of ground based. This would capitalize on Orbiter's strongpoint, and perhaps draw in a crowd that is in it for the space-flight manuvers required to dodge projectiles. Second off, how exactly is this going to work? I will assume that it is without multiplayer, since there is no good, solid one out there yet (unless plans are to make your own, in which case the whole project just got way, way to complex). If you are battling the computer, won't a custom AI be needed to make it interesting, instead of shooting lifeless UMMU's. Lastly, are you intending to include some sort of 'campaign'. This would be very boring with no objective.
Again, we're aiming for a decent AI - better then that you can find in your typical C&C game (eventually).

And objectives will be there as well. Bombing things, shooting things, defending things,... If the AI is able to do it's part, it might be pretty interesting.

We didn't start with space combat because OBSP v0.1 is only a bare-bone project so far. Our work has been building a strong foundation that can support anything. We've been working on things like... firing weapons, registering vessels, collision detection, damage,... all trivial, behind the scenes, but very important tasks. We *could* go straight to space combat, but I think the development of the AI and autopilots will go much smoother if we start in the atmosphere.

As for the multiplayer... we've been thinking about that. We'll see what other people can come up with. Until then, the AI will have to do


Quote:
Originally Posted by fireballs619 View Post
 Anyway, thanks for sitting through my rant (if you did ), and I hope you think about my suggestions. Good luck with this, it will be interesting to see where it ends up!

Thanks for your input
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:10 PM   #37
Jarvitš
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I'll have to second the question whether orbiter really needs a combat simulation. There are already a ton of militaristic addons out there that I likewise feel don't belong. Good luck with your project.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:23 PM   #38
Izack
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One of the few places I've seen pacifist haters.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:23 PM   #39
escapetomsfate
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I agree with what RisingFury said - we're not "concentrating" on any type of warfare. It's just turned out to be atmospheric and ground so far.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:37 PM   #40
Andy44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvitš View Post
 I'll have to second the question whether orbiter really needs a combat simulation. There are already a ton of militaristic addons out there that I likewise feel don't belong. Good luck with your project.
Orbiter doesn't "need" anything. Some of us would like a realistic combat add-on, and some of us don't.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:44 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by T.Neo View Post
 That is an interesting comparison... I never thought to compare space warfare with tank warfare.
Well, once everybody is out in the open it's all "TARGET - 2 O'CLOCK!" - "IDENTIFIED!" - "UP" - "FIRE" - "ON THE WAAAY!" and assorted tankey malarkey.
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:12 PM   #42
Ark
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Finally, I can't wait for my UMMUs to be able to shoot each other.

Be sure to include laser weaponry for airless or zero-g combat.
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:40 PM   #43
Izack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ark View Post
 Be sure to include laser weaponry for airless or zero-g combat.
Why would you need lasers for space combat? Guns work in space, you know.

To quote Mass Effect, "Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a in space," referring to ballistic weapons.

Actually, ballistic weapons have already been tested in space, aboard an Almaz (Salyut) space station.
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:43 PM   #44
Wonderer
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No offence but...Leave it to mother Russia to test weapons where no one has ever tested them.
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:45 PM   #45
Andy44
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Yes, they were actually worried about American attempts to board the station!

It should be interesting if this project proceeds to see how space battle tactics will evolve around the simulated capabilities.
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