Orbiter-Forum  

Go Back   Orbiter-Forum > Orbiter Addons > Addon Support & Bugs > Addon Developer Forums > Space Shuttle Ultra
Register Blogs Orbinauts List Social Groups FAQ Projects Mark Forums Read

Space Shuttle Ultra Support & development threads for Space Shuttle Ultra addon.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-22-2011, 11:06 PM   #16
Urwumpe
Not funny anymore
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Doesn't look like flexible pipes there, but they seem to pass much closer to the rotation joint as in the models.
Urwumpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 08:37 AM   #17
DaveS
Addon Developer
 
DaveS's Avatar


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Doesn't look like flexible pipes there, but they seem to pass much closer to the rotation joint as in the models.
Well, given this is the +Z (zenith) side and the problem is on the -Y (port) side, we're not seeing the problem area, it is in the shaded part of the CISS.

And comparing the locations of the pipes on the model and the pipes on the CISS in the photo relative to their respective Deployment Adapters, they seem to be about the same. Model referenced is the smaller one, of the Centaur G not the larger G Prime scale model with Galileo.

---------- Post added at 09:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:42 AM ----------

Some technical data I have managed to dig up on the Centaur G Prime:

CISS/Centaur sep velocity: 0.3 m/s
Centaur Attitude Control System: 12x27 N, 77 kg propellant capacity tank
Centaur Main Propulsion System: 2xRL-10-3-3A 36700 N, 4379.184 m/s
Propellant maximum capacity: 19438 kg
Centaur G Prime dry mass: 2605 kg

Last edited by DaveS; 02-23-2011 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Corrected maximum propellant capacity and added G Prime vehicle dry mass
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 08:47 AM   #18
tl8
Addon Developer
 
tl8's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Doesn't look like flexible pipes there, but they seem to pass much closer to the rotation joint as in the models.
Agree about the flexible pipes. There looks to possibly be a QD on the last straight before the Centaur.

Other than that, I would almost expect a QD where I marked it earlier. If you use valves, that should seal it for long enough.
tl8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 09:18 AM   #19
DaveS
Addon Developer
 
DaveS's Avatar


Default

Source document for the above data: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1984024341.pdf

---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tl8 View Post
 Agree about the flexible pipes. There looks to possibly be a QD on the last straight before the Centaur.

Other than that, I would almost expect a QD where I marked it earlier. If you use valves, that should seal it for long enough.
The problem is that the Centaur is a cryogenic upper stage that uses LOX and LH2 that needs to be safely vented overboard(think shuttle loaded on the pad on launch day). And the CISS provides these services to safely vent/condition the propellants prior to deployment. So disconnecting the GH2/GOX CISS/Centaur vent lines is not a good idea while still in the payload bay.
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 03:57 PM   #20
DaveS
Addon Developer
 
DaveS's Avatar


Default

I've done some further photographic analysis and have come to the most likely conclusion that the pipes coming off the Deployment Adapter is actually telescoping in the way you suggested Urwumpe.

If you look closely on the Centaur in the SSPF photo, you can see the disconnect rings, between the CISS structure and the engine support stand struts.

I'm going to model this and see if things line properly (I have a pretty good feeling that they will).

---------- Post added 02-26-11 at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was 02-25-11 at 09:59 AM ----------

Just checking here, who's up to coding this beast? Obviously we're going to need some mission file additions that removes the payload bay umbilical panel flight doors from the orbiter so that the umbilicals are exposed.

The control panel could be a modified IUS Standard Switch Panel.

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------

Just completed modeling to point complete enough that would allow me to test the telescoping pipe idea and it works. We're going to need a scaling animation along with the main Deployment Adapter rotation animation though for the telescoping part.
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 04:53 PM   #21
Urwumpe
Not funny anymore
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
 
Just completed modeling to point complete enough that would allow me to test the telescoping pipe idea and it works. We're going to need a scaling animation along with the main Deployment Adapter rotation animation though for the telescoping part.
Why scaling? Shouldn't it already work by just a rotation alone?

I can't volunteer for coding, though I would like to. I currently work on moving the AP-101S stuff into a separate project and separate DLL, so I don't disturb the main SSU development for such a complex project. If the AP-101S emulation works there and is tested well, we can still include it as option or primary method.
Urwumpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 02:32 PM   #22
DaveS
Addon Developer
 
DaveS's Avatar


Default

Bad news again: I thought I had it but failure once again. I don't know what to do now.

---------- Post added 02-27-11 at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was 02-26-11 at 11:44 PM ----------

Here's a animation video of the CISS LH2 fill/drain plumbing rotation in GMAX. It shows the problem quite clearly. The reference image in the background is from a documented dated April 1987, so it is of the final Centaur/CISS designs. Any ideas for improving the look?

DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 02:49 PM   #23
Donamy
Beta Tester


Default

make the hose all one piece, and place the rotation point slightly to the left.
Donamy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 02:53 PM   #24
DaveS
Addon Developer
 
DaveS's Avatar


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donamy View Post
 make the hose all one piece, and place the rotation point slightly to the left.
You mean slightly to the left of its current pivot point? Currently the pivot point for lines is at the Deployment Adapter pivot point.

Also, by "the hoses all one piece" do you mean the ones rotated in the video?
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 03:13 PM   #25
Donamy
Beta Tester


Default

yes
Donamy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 03:30 PM   #26
DaveS
Addon Developer
 
DaveS's Avatar


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donamy View Post
 yes
Is that "yes" to both questions? I.just need that clarified.
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 03:35 PM   #27
Donamy
Beta Tester


Default

From what I thinmk I'm seeing, you have the yellow tube in two pieces. If you join them and move the rotation point to the left it will cause the lower part to go into the box, but the upper part won't look like it's breaking. If that's clear?
Donamy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 03:43 PM   #28
DaveS
Addon Developer
 
DaveS's Avatar


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donamy View Post
 From what I thinmk I'm seeing, you have the yellow tube in two pieces. If you join them and move the rotation point to the left it will cause the lower part to go into the box, but the upper part won't look like it's breaking. If that's clear?
Yes, that's clear. Actually it is four cylinders, the upper horizontal cylinder and its bellow, then the 90 degree bend and then a straight vertical cylinder that connects the other three with the lower bend. According to my analysis the lower bend does not move.
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 03:55 PM   #29
Donamy
Beta Tester


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
 According to my analysis the lower bend does not move.
That maybe so, but very difficult to animate.
Donamy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 03:59 PM   #30
DaveS
Addon Developer
 
DaveS's Avatar


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donamy View Post
 That maybe so, but very difficult to animate.
It has to remain stationary or it will impact the aft center U structure.
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Orbiter-Forum > Orbiter Addons > Addon Support & Bugs > Addon Developer Forums > Space Shuttle Ultra


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:55 AM.

Quick Links Need Help?


About Us | Rules & Guidelines | TOS Policy | Privacy Policy

Orbiter-Forum is hosted at Orbithangar.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2017, Orbiter-Forum.com. All rights reserved.