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Old 01-12-2018, 01:35 AM   #46
Zatnikitelman
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Or it was suborbital to begin with.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:20 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Zatnikitelman View Post
 Or it was suborbital to begin with.
If that were the case, I strongly suspect it would have been launched from Vandenburg.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:00 AM   #48
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Neat!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.spa...al-photos.html

Also:



Last edited by statickid; 01-12-2018 at 10:07 AM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:18 PM   #49
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Yes, this looks like something was spinning while venting.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:42 PM   #50
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Yeah I'm not personally weirded out by this. Mostly I'm just jealous because I never see any cool spacecraft activity where I live!!! I need to move lol
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:05 PM   #51
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A strong argument in favor of Zuma actually being on orbit:

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone...as-intended-to

TL;DR: The use of disinformation and/or muddying the waters regarding the success or failure of a low-observable payload has been done at least twice before, under the MISTY program (Launches in 1990 from the Shuttle and 1999 atop a Titan IV). The custom payload adaptor could even have carried "decoys" meant to confuse attempts at tracking Zuma.

And, as the gang at The War Zone put it...
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Originally Posted by Tyler Rogoway and Joseph Trevithick
 Suffice it to say, working to develop a platform that can’t be easily tracked by enemy sensors would be a top priority of the Pentagon at this time. And this doesn't just relate to imaging platforms that benefit from the element of surprise, but other types of satellites as well. Even communications satellites that could “selectively” shroud their position when their services aren’t in use, making them far more survivable than their “sitting duck” counterparts, would be a highly attractive capability for the Pentagon to acquire.

With all of this in mind, it's really worth at least considering the possibility that Zuma actually did exactly what it was intended to do. With the help of just a sprinkling of non-official disinformation, it may have been able to start its mission under the best possible circumstances—disappearing into the darkness to go about its intended task from the shadows undetected.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:10 PM   #52
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Well, but if they declare it to be lost and space debris, they also open it up for other interests... nobody could complain if some nation decides to remove THIS space debris from orbit or at least investigate it.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:10 PM   #53
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As I understand it they could absolutely complain. I thought any spacecraft functioning or not, and even space debris remain the exclusive property of the nation that launched it.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:32 AM   #54
Artlav
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So we can use it as ASAT target practice, and the USA won't be able to complain?
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:41 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Artlav View Post
 So we can use it as ASAT target practice, and the USA won't be able to complain?
Only if you won't complain if we use one of your guy's satellites as a test target, as well.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:50 AM   #56
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 So we can use it as ASAT target practice, and the USA won't be able to complain?
Debris doesn't equal finders/keepers, this includes debris of spacecraft/satellites. People found out this the hard way when Columbia was lost and they thought that they had been handed great shuttle souvenirs in the form of debris. Not so, NASA/US Government still owned it and they were ready to charge anyone that was found in possession of Columbia debris with theft of government property. Some did get charged, but most did hand in the debris that they had found and kept during a month-long amnesty period.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:00 AM   #57
Artlav
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Putin: *shoots down that piece of space junk*
Trump tweet: Those damn Russians shot down our satellite! It's an act of war!
DoD on TV: Our president is mistaken, there was no satellite there, just a piece of a booster.
Trump tweet: Fake news! It says right here in this top secret report that our stealth satellite was shot down!
Putin on TV: Our American colleagues were rather irresponsible in marking what appears to have been an operational satellite as orbital debris, resulting in the recent space janitor system accident.
Trump tweet: Treason! The nuclear launch codes they gave me were fake!

Close enough?

Last edited by Artlav; 01-13-2018 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Fixing dods and mods
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:48 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlav View Post
 Putin: *shoots down that piece of space junk*
Trump tweet: Those damn Russians shot down our satellite! It's an act of war!
MoD on TV: Our president is mistaken, there was no satellite there, just a piece of a booster.
Trump tweet: Fake news! It says right here in this top secret report that our stealth satellite was shot down!
Putin on TV: Our American colleagues were rather irresponsible in marking what appears to have been an operational satellite as orbital debris, resulting in the recent space janitor system accident.
Trump tweet: Treason! The nuclear launch codes they gave me were fake!

Close enough?
Well, if the minister of defense got on TV to say that Trump was mistaken, I'd be very worried, because we don't have an MoD, we have a DoD, which is headed by an SoD. For that to be replaced by minister and ministry of defense would imply that a coup or foreign takeover had happened while I want looking, or, at least, that there had been a monumental change in the structure of the government.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:05 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by statickid View Post
 As I understand it they could absolutely complain. I thought any spacecraft functioning or not, and even space debris remain the exclusive property of the nation that launched it.
Not quite - space debris is not a spacecraft. It remains the responsibility of the nation which launched it according to the Outer Space Treaty, but even that has some tough legal precedences in the past. Just think of the West Ford needles or the russian reactor coolant in space, which is pretty much treated like natural debris.

In case of Columbia, the law for that was not based on the Outer Space Treaty, but actually the regulations for aircraft accidents. There you have the same rules - would Columbia have crashed in another country, it might have been much harder getting the debris. In Germany for example, its some sort keepers/finders: When you find debris, the government can take it away from you for investigations, but you have to be compensated/rewarded for finding it, usually around 10% of its value. Similar for old buried treasures.

Last edited by Urwumpe; 01-13-2018 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:12 AM   #60
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Not just responsibility but property. It doesn't matter if I have a junk car in my back 40 I can still tackle someone trying to steal the side mirrors then have them arrested for trespassing and theft.
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