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Old 05-08-2017, 02:15 AM   #46
boogabooga
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Considering that even foam can be dangerous if it comes off during launch, I guess that it is pretty lucky that the launch did not fail.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:11 AM   #47
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Okay, so it looks like the Centaur G wouldn't have sent Galileo on a direct course to Jupiter. It instead would have placed it in a heliocentric orbit. Galileo would then fire its thrusters somewhere in deep space to put it on a path where it would fly by Earth and get a gravity assist to Jupiter. The entire journey from Shuttle launch to Jupiter arrival would have taken four years.



I'm not entirely sure how to simulate that flight profile so any tips would be nice. At any rate I can properly set up the launch scenario without fudging the numbers.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:13 AM   #48
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Here's the SSU development thread for our Centaur G/G Prime: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=20597. It contains alot of information on both the longer G Prime and the short version, the G.

Last edited by DaveS; 05-08-2017 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:06 AM   #49
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The plot thickens. Further digging reveals that the Delta V + Earth Gravity Assist would only be used if the shorter Centaur G or 2 stage IUS with a kick motor were used as opposed to the G-Prime. I'm back to square one of trying to get Galileo direct to Jupiter on a Saturn IB with a Centaur G-Prime upper stage. The only varient of the G-Prime that I was able to get to work was the version that was used on the Titan IV. The issue there is that it needs to burn every drop of fuel to work and it's too heavy for the Saturn IB to get into space on its own.

The G-Prime designed for the Shuttle apparently burned its LOX and liquid hydrogen at a different ratio than the shorter Centaur G. The standard Centaur G burned its fuel at a ratio of 6:1 and the G-Prime at a ratio of 5:1. Would this different ratio cause a difference in impulse? Longer burn time? More bang for their buck as it were? The prime carried more fuel so it already has a longer burn time, but would that burn time be lengthened further?

Another thing I could do is strap SRBs to the Saturn IB and reinstall the restartable S-IVB-500. I'd rather not do that but I'll do what I must.

---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 AM ----------

Seems that strapping Titan SRBs to the Saturn IB was actually looked into. Velcro Saturns simulates a lot of these variations now that I think about it. I kinda want to play with these variations a little. That might push this add on's release back a little but whatever. I want to give you all plenty of content to sink your teeth into.
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:15 AM   #50
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Looking at the Centaur G-Prime in Space Shuttle Ultra 4.2, and seeing that its specs seem to match the specs given for the Titan version of the Centaur G here, I've broken down and gone with those numbers.

Now, the Saturn IB cannot get this version of the G into orbit with the heavy Galileo on the end of it without the Centaur burning some of its own fuel. However, with a PAM-D as a kick motor to augment the Centaur fuel lost reaching orbit, I am able to get Galileo direct to Jupiter without the need to go all out and strap Titan SRBs to the Saturn IB.

Mission Accomplished. *cues fanfare*
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:23 AM   #51
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I'm working on simulating some of the different variants of the Saturn rockets. So far I've recreated the INT-05, INT-05A, and the INT-12. The 05 and 05A were variants of the Saturn IB that replaced the S-IB first stage with a giant, 260 inch solid rocket motor. The INT-12 is another variation of the Saturn IB that has four 5-segment SRBs from the Titan IIIE and only 4 H1 engines in the S-IB first stage instead of 8. The INT-12 is designed to ignite the S-IB core stage at sea level and have it burn parallel to the SRBs. It was similar to the INT-11 except that variant retains all 8 H1 engines and is designed to ignite the S-IB at altitude.

I also set up a couple scenarios for an alternate Apollo 9 mission where both spacecraft are launched separately on Saturn IBs. Gumdrop chases down Spider in a fashion reminiscent of the Gemini missions that involved docking with separately launched Agena Target Vehicles.
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:20 PM   #52
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I think Sputnik's "Velcro Saturns" simulated some of those configurations, you may use that as reference, perhaps.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:08 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogabooga View Post
 I think Sputnik's "Velcro Saturns" simulated some of those configurations, you may use that as reference, perhaps.
I've actually used it as a reference. The meshes I used for the Titan SRBs and the 260 inch solid rocket first stages for the INT-05 and 05A are from the Velcro Rockets and Velcro Saturns add ons. The meshes I used for the Centaurs (D, G, and G-Prime) are also from Velcro Rockets. I chose to use the NASSP meshes for the Saturn rockets because they're more accurate and they look better imho.

There's still more that I would like to do and I've been tinkering with this add on whenever I get the chance. I recently figured out how to get some older add ons to work in Orbiter 2010 such as Cassini-Huygens, Ulysses, and Magellan. I'll try to set up launch scenarios for those payloads. I'm thinking about trying to get the old Viking Program add on working.
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Old 05-23-2017, 03:52 PM   #54
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I've simulated the INT-13 (a Saturn IB with 2 Titan UA1205 SRBs) and the INT-20 (a Saturn V but the S-II is removed from the stack, making a 2 stage launcher with a very high powered first stage). I'll be sure to post screenshots.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:32 PM ----------

Here's some screenshots:



Alternate history Apollo 9. Spider readies for launch on pad A while Gumdrop waits its turn on pad B.



The Saturn INT-05 on the pad.



The INT-05A in flight.



The INT-12 in flight.



The INT-20 in flight.
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:03 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1987VCRProductions View Post
 Okay, so it looks like the Centaur G wouldn't have sent Galileo on a direct course to Jupiter. It instead would have placed it in a heliocentric orbit. Galileo would then fire its thrusters somewhere in deep space to put it on a path where it would fly by Earth and get a gravity assist to Jupiter. The entire journey from Shuttle launch to Jupiter arrival would have taken four years.



I'm not entirely sure how to simulate that flight profile so any tips would be nice. At any rate I can properly set up the launch scenario without fudging the numbers.
That must not be for the (last planned) 1986 launch window, as that would have Galileo sent directly to Jupiter arriving in December 1988.
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Old 05-23-2017, 04:23 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLS View Post
 That must not be for the (last planned) 1986 launch window, as that would have Galileo sent directly to Jupiter arriving in December 1988.
Right, that comes from the booklet pertaining to the shorter Centaur G and not the G-Prime. The shorter G could not get Galileo direct to Jupiter so they would have used this flight profile with a gravity assist from Earth. This profile would also be flown if they were limited to an IUS with a PAM-S as a third stage. Such a flight profile was eventually flown, I believe, with Juno.

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

I forgot to show an image of the INT-13.



---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------

I know this is off topic and I apologize, but here's an illustration of that possible Galileo flight profile description:


Last edited by 1987VCRProductions; 05-23-2017 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:49 AM   #57
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I got missleman01's Cassini-Huygens add on working with Orbiter 2010 P1 and Multistage2015. I've set up a scenario for launching Cassini directly to Saturn using a Saturn V-Centaur. I might also set up a scenario for launching it with a Saturn IB-Centaur if you still wish to fly the complicated Venus-Venus-Earth-Jupiter Gravity Assist flight profile.

---------- Post added 05-25-17 at 02:49 AM ---------- Previous post was 05-24-17 at 11:53 PM ----------

I set up a scenario for launching Cassini-Huygens on a Saturn IB with a Centaur G-Prime upper stage. Despite the weight of both the Centaur and the Cassini-Huygens spacecraft, there is still enough fuel left in the Centaur after parking orbit insertion to get Cassini on its way to Venus, a testament to the genius of Wernher von Braun's Saturn rocket design.

Last edited by 1987VCRProductions; 05-25-2017 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 05-27-2017, 08:46 AM   #58
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The longer I sit on this, the more things I want to do with this add on. I have a few more items that I'll throw in and then I'll work on getting this add on ready to post on Orbit Hangar. I have ini and scenario files for launching the ATM-B and Resupply Module for Skylab B that I'll include and I'll set up some scenarios for launching Geosynchronous Orbit payloads like the OrbiComm, TDRS, and the Magnum spy satellite.

Getting this add on packaged together will be fun (that's sarcasm), I need to sit down and make a list of all the different add ons that are required. I also need to contact sputnik because I had to duplicate some of the meshes from Velcro Rockets and Velcro Saturns (one of the fairings wasn't spawning correctly after being jettisoned and I had to duplicate the Titan SRBs in order to use them).

---------- Post added at 08:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 AM ----------

Also, now that NASSP 7 is finally out I'll rework all the ini files to call the meshes from NASSP 7 instead of 6. Right now they call the rocket meshes from 6 and the S-IC/S-II interstage rings from the beta of 7. Should make things a little less complicated.
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Old 05-28-2017, 09:16 PM   #59
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I have Sputnik's blessing to redistribute a few meshes so everything is currently going smoothly. I'll be working toward a release sometime this week or the next. I'm very excited to share the work that I put into this (and to put this behind me so I can work on my AMSO soundpacks).
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:43 AM   #60
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I discovered that NASSP 7 has meshes for Launch Complex 37B. I just moved the flights of AS-203 and Apollo 5 to that pad as that was where they actually launched from.
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