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Old 07-14-2010, 04:38 AM   #16
Bj
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Originally Posted by fireballs619 View Post
 Math looks fine to me, after reading it over. The only question that arose when reading it was this: how do we plan on getting men/supplies back into orbit for the return trip. If the SkyCrane doesn't have necassary fuel capacity, is a new vehicle required?
The OSHV which is where the crew resides, has its own supply of fuel + engines. That fuel is hypergolic so it can remain dormant for a long time with little maintenance. Since this fuel is being brought from Earth, it cannot be synthesized on Mars and really means a one way ticket from the surface to LMO.
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Old 07-14-2010, 05:15 AM   #17
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Ah, I didn't know that. Looks like there aren't any problems then!
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bj View Post
 The OSHV which is where the crew resides, has its own supply of fuel + engines. That fuel is hypergolic so it can remain dormant for a long time with little maintenance. Since this fuel is being brought from Earth, it cannot be synthesized on Mars and really means a one way ticket from the surface to LMO.
I think this makes many advantages of the Skycrane useless. I included it especially so no mass has to be wasted on fuels, and no security hazards arise from rocket fuel near humans.

---------- Post added at 01:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 AM ----------

another improvement to the OSHV: Install the complete life-support into it, leave the long-term power supply out.

For landing, we rely on batteries, after landing, the astronauts could first deploy small solar array modules, for having minimal power generation until the reactor is powered up.

But we need the life-support where the crew is and practically all crew should land on Mars.
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:33 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 I think this makes many advantages of the Skycrane useless. I included it especially so no mass has to be wasted on fuels, and no security hazards arise from rocket fuel near humans.

---------- Post added at 01:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 AM ----------

another improvement to the OSHV: Install the complete life-support into it, leave the long-term power supply out.

For landing, we rely on batteries, after landing, the astronauts could first deploy small solar array modules, for having minimal power generation until the reactor is powered up.

But we need the life-support where the crew is and practically all crew should land on Mars.
I was expecting the ECLSS to be in the hab, that and the ERV(oh forgot to add that) is the only places where the crew should stay. The only reason i put backup engines on the OSHV is for backup if the shycrane stopped working. Iam sure they dont want to be stranded there. But isnt asking the crane to lift a 15tonne object to orbit a little demanding? It would take alot of fuel....
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Old 07-14-2010, 01:43 PM   #20
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Sure it would, the ERV could also have its own propellant supply, since the crew is not expected to stay in the ERV. But I don't feel well with toxic fuels in the settlement. And any kind of fuel tank is a potential hazard, that could be avoided.
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Old 07-14-2010, 05:10 PM   #21
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 Sure it would, the ERV could also have its own propellant supply, since the crew is not expected to stay in the ERV. But I don't feel well with toxic fuels in the settlement. And any kind of fuel tank is a potential hazard, that could be avoided.
Good point, but what if the tanks where empty? The tanks could be moved off site And reinstalled when needed or we could use some non hypergolic propellent. How does it work with the orbiters RMS? Isnt that stuff toxic?
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:13 PM   #22
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 Good point, but what if the tanks where empty? The tanks could be moved off site And reinstalled when needed or we could use some non hypergolic propellent. How does it work with the orbiters RMS? Isnt that stuff toxic?
I believe you mean OMS. The RMS isn't dangerous as long as you don't get out and try to lick it.

Anyway, yes, monomethylhydrazine is toxic, but it is only stored in relatively small amounts on the opposite end of the Shuttle from the crew. The OMS pods are removable from the Shuttle while it's grounded for maintenance and storage.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:35 PM   #23
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When can we start getting some of this gear to test and practice with? I really wanna try my hand at manuvering the stack
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:52 PM   #24
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Beautiful, beautiful. Not that I pretend to be helping, but still, awesome job so far.

I volunteer for the development of good luck.
I'll start by hailing Probe whilst waving a ritual gohei and chanting "Akuryou taisan", then flushing an ice cube down the toilet.

EDIT: Also, the moment you decide for sure what the vehicles will look like, interplanetary anthropomorphism will commence.

Last edited by River Crab; 07-14-2010 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:45 PM   #25
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 I believe you mean OMS. The RMS isn't dangerous as long as you don't get out and try to lick it.

Anyway, yes, monomethylhydrazine is toxic, but it is only stored in relatively small amounts on the opposite end of the Shuttle from the crew. The OMS pods are removable from the Shuttle while it's grounded for maintenance and storage.
errr not sure why I did that

I meant to say RCS which burns monomethyl hydrazine fuel and nitrogen tetroxide but that happens to be the same as the OMS.

Well anyway, alright on second thought maybe fuel tanks under where they sleep for a few years isn't such a good idea. Since (I think) we are packing 2x skycranes, chances of 2 failing are remote.

Um sorry guys, but I don't think I can make the few changes by tonight. I actually had a few updates and changes to the parts I didn't show above yet. Delay 24 hours, hope the list will be out by then

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 ...then flushing an ice cube down the toilet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by River Crab View Post
 EDIT: Also, the moment you decide for sure what the vehicles will look like, interplanetary anthropomorphism will commence.
Well the blanks without pictures/specific designs I am really lenient on the designs, so long as they 'fit' collapsed or not, inside a module capable of being launched from Earth.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:09 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by River Crab View Post
 I volunteer for the development of good luck.
I'll start by hailing Probe whilst waving a ritual gohei and chanting "Akuryou taisan", then flushing an ice cube down the toilet.
Get your ice cubes out of the WCS! You'll attract a comet doing that!!
You know...snow days...comets...hahah?
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:39 AM   #27
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You forget a proposal, sending the communication satellites ahead of time with a massive rocket holding 4 communication satellites to act as communication.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:43 AM   #28
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 You forget a proposal, sending the communication satellites ahead of time with a massive rocket holding 4 communication satellites to act as communication.
We forgot...what?
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:45 AM   #29
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It was an idea of mine that wasn't added which could've been very great.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:56 AM   #30
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When did we say we were going to do that?!? I will once again say that it is impossible to launch anything ahead of the main mission. It's all at once or nothing, because the launch windows between the Earth and the Moon are 26 months apart. Once again, it could be found here http://orbiter-forum.com/picture.php...pictureid=2728

That does bring an interesting point up, however. How do we plan on managing communications? Are we just going to man it up while we are there, and deal with the ~20 min delay for radio transmissions, or are we going to pack satellites that will better communications. I can foresee problems arising from losing contact with ground control.
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