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Old 11-26-2013, 06:57 PM   #76
Hlynkacg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linguofreak View Post
 I assume you mean panel buttons being tied to functions? I can do happily without a working panel if key bindings are documented (in fact, I spend most of my time in glass cockpit mode unless a ship explicitly requires interaction with a 3d or 2d cockpit for some functionality).
Yes, though proper documentation also needs to be done.

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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 If this is going to be a CRT, you might better want to move it a bit further inside - those old charactron tubes had been quite long, because of the character matrix (for displaying text) and the additional deflection and collimination stages. Usually, such a tube was much longer than wide, the small Space Shuttle CRTs had been about 50% longer than wide.

A 21" Charactron display had been 6 feet long!

Ultra-slim CRTS had been an invention of the 1990s.
The MFD is a 8 inch screen and the "box" containing is 9.5 inches deep and positioned it in such a way that it does not stick out of the actual hull.

Is it 100% realistic? No. I am aware that CRTs like this are anachronistic technology for the Apollo-era but I'm trying to balance historical fidelity/atmosphere with making the vessel accessible to the basic Orbinaut.

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Originally Posted by orbitingpluto View Post
 Great to hear your back at it, and awesome news about the MFDs in the LM. While the problem with the CM's VC persists, AAPO is the centerpiece of the one of my Orbiter installs, and has been occupied a fair share of my thinking for a while. If you got a fix for the VC or want a tester, call on me.
Thank you for the kind words, and will do.

In the mean time here's the new MFD with some textures applied...



---------- Post added at 10:57 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

Thanks to meson800 in this thread here...

My cockpit handler is now much more intuitive and easier to edit/maintain. It is also configured in such away that it can be "dropped in" to any vessel derived from my "AAPO_Vessel" parent class and with some minor effort any VESSEL3.

This should make work go a lot faster...

Currently in work...
"Pulse mode" for LM RCS thrusters and converting existing functions over to new format.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:20 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Hlynkacg View Post
 Yes, though proper documentation also needs to be done.
In the meantime it would be really nice to know what the key combo for apex cover jettison is (and actually for the parachutes too, I'd figured it out with random key-jabbing, but have since forgotten).

Quote:
The MFD is a 8 inch screen and the "box" containing is 9.5 inches deep and positioned it in such a way that it does not stick out of the actual hull.

Is it 100% realistic? No. I am aware that CRTs like this are anachronistic technology for the Apollo-era but I'm trying to balance historical fidelity/atmosphere with making the vessel accessible to the basic Orbinaut.
The first thing I'd recommend there is to make it flyable from the glass cockpit alone: at least one scenario has the RCS and engine switched off at scenario load, requiring several switch flips to get the spacecraft into working order (and I'm never quite sure if I'm flipping unnecessary switches or not flipping one I need), though everything seems to be working for the moment after flipping the switches that I do. It would be good to have a key combo or two that automatically sets the panel to an appropriate state for a given stage of flight (probably one key combo to set up descent, and another for abort/ascent).

Once it's flyable from the glass cockpit, you could make the 3D cockpit entirely historically focused and let basic Orbitnauts use the glass cockpit, or you could offer two variations, one with fairly historically accurate Apollo era avionics (DSKY, etc) and no MFDs, and the other being an "Apollo Applications Project" panel with the stock Orbiter MFDs representing whatever avionics upgrades would have been received if the Apollo program had continued.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:07 PM   #78
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I was actually considering making a "simple" flight model where prop and thruster management would be handled entirely off screen.
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Old 11-29-2013, 03:40 AM   #79
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Nice work and great to see that the project is still alive. I really like the CRT idea and see no issue with realism (or lack thereof). Had Apollo not been cancelled, I think something similar to this would have been developed (with the CRT's and other Shuttle-era gadgets) eventually as part of the Apollo Applications Program. Apart from that, I really like the 70's/80's retro, golden-age feel.

At any rate, I'm looking forward to where this goes. Good luck with school and the job search as well!
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:32 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Linguofreak View Post
 ...
or you could offer two variations, one with fairly historically accurate Apollo era avionics (DSKY, etc) and no MFDs, and the other being an "Apollo Applications Project" panel with the stock Orbiter MFDs representing whatever avionics upgrades ....
Agreed, but perhaps too much work. The upgraded cockpit with the MFDs is the way to go.

What we need are classical MFDs. It's perfectly possible to have MFDs that display gauges, pointers, etc, etc. ...
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:42 AM   #81
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Well, we have a good project with accurate historic avionics already.

But I still would love to have something in between Apollo, Skylab and the Space Shuttle. maybe even with circular computer displays, like the old military jets of the era.
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:13 AM   #82
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There's a whole threads of what-ifs that I wish I had the time and skills to put together.

Anyway, I'm diggin' the forward progress of AAPO!
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:12 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Well, we have a good project with accurate historic avionics already.

But I still would love to have something in between Apollo, Skylab and the Space Shuttle. maybe even with circular computer displays, like the old military jets of the era.
I'm aware of the old spherical projection SCS and Radar displays that started appearing late in WWII (in truth they were fish-eyes rather than true spheres) but not of anything that mimicked a proper MFD or CRT, can you provide an example?
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Old 11-29-2013, 04:19 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Hlynkacg View Post
 I'm aware of the old spherical projection SCS and Radar displays that started appearing late in WWII (in truth they were fish-eyes rather than true spheres) but not of anything that mimicked a proper MFD or CRT, can you provide an example?


This here is already a pretty modern E or F version of the F-111, but the two round displays on top are actually CRTs in their construction, that had been already in early versions of the F-111.

EDIT: And this display is actually also a Charactron type CRT, used in the SAGE computer system:



In the mid-1970s the same function with then-modern technology looked like that then:

Last edited by Urwumpe; 11-29-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:57 PM   #85
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LM MFD now with functional buttons/labels.

Last edited by Hlynkacg; 12-01-2013 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:10 PM   #86
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What I'm up to and where I'm going...

1st off I'm still job hunting if anyone knows of any openings for a part time math student/and self-taught 3d artist with a US DOD security clearance in southern California drop me a PM.

I can also lift heavy things.

As for AAPO...

90 percent of my effort has been cleaning up and overhauling the LM. My programing knowledge has come a long way since I first started and I needed to bring the code up to code. The major differences visible to the user will be the overhauled RCS code and higher frame rates in the VC. (my old display functions were a nighmare).

On the back end the functions and displays are much more modular, making it easier to plug and play.

---------- Post added 12-03-13 at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was 12-02-13 at 16:44 ----------

AAPO Roadmap:
some further comments on the modularity I mentioned earlier. The next update is going to represent a pretty major overhaul. Aspects of this were already present in the CSM's code as I had appliued numerous "lessons learned" from developing the LM and other projects, but now I am applying them whole-sale.

All vessels in AAPO are now derived from a core "AAPO_Vessel" class.
AAPO_Vessel in turn has two friend sub-classes "AAPO_Cockpit" and "AAPO_Autopilot".

AAPO_Cockpit is a cockpit manager class that contains user interface logic/functions as well as sub classes for common types of displays. Adding a switch or display to a cockpit is now as simple as adding "AAPO_Cockpit::CreateSwitch (blah blah blah)" or "AAPO_Cockpit::CreateDigitalDisplay (blah blah blah)" to the appropriate callback function.

AAPO_Autopilot's name is a bit of a misnomer at the moment as it is only a stub but I have been slowly populating it with math functions used in trajectory planning and RCS optimization.

So where too from here?
All vessels in AAPO are now derived form the AAPO_Vessel class.

Of these I have two "Hero classes" that are being set up for full player control. they are AAPO_CM (Apollo Command Module) and AAPO_LM (the Apollo LM Ascent Module).

Once these two classes are stable, I plan to start adding additional child classes.

in the form of various AAP concepts like the Apollo CRV and LM-derived space tug
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:16 PM   #87
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You could also use namespaces for keeping your classes together and separated from potential name conflicts.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:39 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 You could also use namespaces for keeping your classes together and separated from potential name conflicts.
I'm already using them a bit in my cockpit code i.e

Code:
PANEL1::Switch_01, 02, 03, etc...

vs

PANEL2::Switch_01, 02, 03, etc...
but could you elaborate a bit more on what you had in mind?
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:48 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 You could also use namespaces for keeping your classes together and separated from potential name conflicts.


One of the least obvious things about programming with mid-level languages is how important structure really is to writing good code. Namespaces sound like a trivial curiosity at first, but wrapping code in them allows for very effective organization of accessible identifiers which help to describe the purpose of that code without even needing to comment it. Its also immensely useful in MSVC++ 2010 due to a nice little interactive feature built into the compiler.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:55 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Hlynkacg View Post
 but could you elaborate a bit more on what you had in mind?
You could also use "aapo" as namespace for all your classes, instead of prefixing the class name with AAPO.

You can have namespaces nested in namespaces. I don't recommend too much nesting, but its possible.
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