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Old 01-16-2015, 04:58 PM   #31
martins
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Ok, I'll look into those issues.

Speaking of night lights: I am not entirely happy with them anyway, but so far they are my best effort. I constructed them by modulating the global night light image from the NASA visible Earth site (which is low-res and hopelessly overexposed) with the normal Landsat surface textures in order to insert fake high-resolution features.

The trouble is, if I am using the Landsat images at the highest resolution for constructing the night lights, then they appear grey and uniform unless very close up, since all the fine detail is just smeared into dim grey areas. So I am using a medium resolution, which still looks ok from a distance, and not too blocky when close up. But it would be nicer if I could somehow exploit the maximum resolution when in close proximity.

If somebody can think of a good algorithm for generating nice night light textures across all resolution ranges, or (even better) has a higher resolution less overexposed global light map source, I'd like to hear about it.

I guess it also comes down to the question up to which altitude one would still see the night lights with the naked eye. Most night-side photographs will be long-exposure, so don't really give a fair impression. And then we get into all the issues with eye dark adaptation, etc. which are tricky to simulate.
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Old 01-16-2015, 05:26 PM   #32
fort
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Hello,

I could say different things about the night lights but the main problem I encountered with my own experimentations in the past is that, at high resolutions, in approach/fly over/land, is the strong flickering they cause.

I was never really convinced, for that reason, of what I was doing. But it could be now easier, at least locally, with the new type of texturing .

It is not easy to soften this effect while keeping enough detail and even stay also with dxt1.

Currently, for some tests I did with the betas, the level 12 of your night textures sounds reasonable. It is, it seems to me, everywhere at a maximum level of 13 except perhaps - I forget - on Canaveral.

Last edited by fort; 01-16-2015 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 01-17-2015, 04:33 PM   #33
jarmonik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martins View Post
 Speaking of night lights: I am not entirely happy with them anyway, but so far they are my best effort. I constructed them by modulating the global night light image from the NASA visible Earth site (which is low-res and hopelessly overexposed) with the normal Landsat surface textures in order to insert fake high-resolution features.
I think orbital rendering of the night lights are good enough but down-sampled textures could be brighter (In my opinion). I am not exactly sure how to properly down-sample an emissive texture. Of course, a resulting pixel can't be brighter than the brightest one of the four source pixels, but the resulting pixel could be brighter than the average value of the source pixels.

What I have observed, the night lights texture anomalies occur in a locations where a level 7 tile has 1-3 level 8 child nodes, if all 4 nodes are present then the problem doesn't occur. (Screen Shot 1)

Low altitude night lights are little problematic like in the screen shot. It could be practical to have some kind of surface base editor that could allow to place structures and light emitters in a surface bases to improve realism. Of course, the light from the emitters would need to be baked into a light-maps and visualized like the runway lights/beacons.

EDIT: Any good aerial night shots from Cape Canaveral ?


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Originally Posted by martins View Post
 I guess it also comes down to the question up to which altitude one would still see the night lights with the naked eye. Most night-side photographs will be long-exposure, so don't really give a fair impression. And then we get into all the issues with eye dark adaptation, etc. which are tricky to simulate.
I suppose a real astronaut could tell us the true intensity of the night lights as seen by a human eye. I suppose someone could try to e-mail.
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nl.png   rw.png  

Last edited by jarmonik; 01-17-2015 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 02-01-2015, 02:15 PM   #34
fort
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 Speaking of night lights: I am not entirely happy with them...

If somebody can think of a good algorithm for generating nice night light textures across all resolution ranges...

Below, a quick experiment, made ​​today with one of your dds - of the VAB - at level 16 ( around 5000 m for the altitude ).

Unfortunately , this can only be applied locally and I will appreciate now - after my trys on London - to find global solutions. I search ...at new.
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1.jpg   2.jpg   3.jpg   4.jpg  

Last edited by fort; 02-01-2015 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 02-01-2015, 02:29 PM   #35
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The tile
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:22 PM   #36
Ripley
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 ...I suppose a real astronaut could tell us the true intensity of the night lights as seen by a human eye. I suppose someone could try to e-mail.
When Paolo Nespoli was aboard the ISS, one FOI member asked him a question and he did reply in a video.
Maybe it's not that difficult to get through...

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Old 02-01-2015, 06:23 PM   #37
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 Below, a quick experiment, made ​​today with one of your dds - of the VAB - at level 16 ( around 5000 m for the altitude ).
Looks good except that the Crawlerway (the road that connects the VAB with the two launch pads) is completely unlit, there's no lights whatsoever. See this timelapse video I created of the STS-118/ISS13A1. rollout:

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Old 02-01-2015, 07:15 PM   #38
fort
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 Looks good...
Thank you,

But it is not so good; it's just a quick test, to give an overview of what can be maybe eventually done locally. The level "13" nightlight actually looks as better as they can. If I had to publish that scenery officially, I would take more time and care to observe real images to get close better than here. Probably using masks from terrain maps ( roads or others) or things like that.

I did another test on the pad 39 (...I think ), but, again, at first, to reconnect with the softwares that I had not used for several months.

Last edited by fort; 02-01-2015 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 02-01-2015, 11:34 PM   #39
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Here's a nice shot of Dubai at night taken by astronaut "Butch" Wilmore: https://twitter.com/NASA_Astronauts/...07773449850880
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:02 AM   #40
jarmonik
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I made a small night lights experiment with the Beta 11 build a while ago that is mixing the nightlights with the hires-surface textures. It looks reasonable. Now we would need to be able to lit the surface base buildings based on surface illumination beneath them.
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:44 PM   #41
fort
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 Now we would need to be able to lit the surface base buildings based on surface illumination beneath them.
It is doable without too much difficulty on small surfaces without that. It would still be interesting to find solutions that can be applied to large areas at once - can be all the map - while maintaining a good appearance of realism. Maybe not at Orbiter's level 19 but 15 or 16. While restoring night lights seen from far as they existed ( Jim Williams addon for example) in the 2005 version .
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Old 03-11-2015, 06:37 AM   #42
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I downloaded all of the massive multi-GB texture packs (120GB unzipped!) I am having issues with a "shimmering" type texture corruption on any textures >L9.

I uploaded some .pngs tohttp://imgur.com/a/RAbQe, with all the "Planetary effects" turned off to just show the texture with no atmosphere. It's not apparent in the stills, but the corruption moves with time which makes it very distracting. The L9 textures end up being "better"....

Windows 7 64bit, AMD R9 270X. I tried all different combinations of the "Extra" settings for mipmaps and ansitropic filtering, with no impact on the issue.
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Old 03-18-2015, 10:57 PM   #43
BigJimW
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Hey Martin! It's been awhile hasn't it? I got from what I can tell is the latest version of Orbiter, but for some reason, the level 14 textures are just not working. Any ideas?

- Jim
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:54 AM   #44
fort
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 Hey Martin! It's been awhile hasn't it? I got from what I can tell is the latest version of Orbiter, but for some reason, the level 14 textures are just not working. Any ideas?

- Jim
Hello BigJimW,

If your question concern the entire Earth, as far i know, the highest level for high textures is 13 everywhere but 19 on canaveral and Florida, and 16 for EarthHi_05_28, EarthHi_11_05, EarthHi_10_06, EarthHi_12_21.

good day.

Last edited by fort; 03-19-2015 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:13 PM   #45
martins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimW View Post
 Hey Martin! It's been awhile hasn't it? I got from what I can tell is the latest version of Orbiter, but for some reason, the level 14 textures are just not working. Any ideas?

- Jim
Hi Big Jim - this is indeed a blast from the past! I'm not entirely sure if your question refers to the current release version (2010) or beta (2015), but either way, can you say what exactly the problem is? Does the high resolution content just not show up? What are you comparing it against? What texture files did you install?
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