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Old 06-21-2019, 08:45 AM   #16
Urwumpe
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 Didn't know that, probably a good thing there were no troops on the ships. Would have been many more deaths I think.
Not sure, but the moral of the interned fleet was volatile, in friendly words. Preparing the scuttling of the fleet was a longer project that kept the sailors busy despite the very bad conditions.

Would the UK have tried the seize the ships, we might have had the battle of Scapa Flow, with revolutionary soldiers fighting along British soldiers against loyalist crews.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:57 AM   #17
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Its not a good scenario. The fact unarmed sailors were fired on by British troops shows the confusion.
I'm assuming the ships had their ammunition and firearms removed. Though you can imagine how easy it would be to hide any.

Wonder why the crews weren't sent back to Germany?

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Old 06-21-2019, 09:19 AM   #18
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 I'm assuming the ships had their ammunition and firearms removed.
Yes, in Germany already. Including expensive nautical instruments. They travelled to Scapa Flow unarmed. But that does not mean a ship steaming at 30 knots is harmless. They could have decided to ram themselves through the defending ships and get back home.

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 Wonder why the crews weren't sent back to Germany?
Because the ships had remained German property. Most of the crew got sent back to German eventually on cargo ships and the ships only had minimum crews, but they remained a German fleet. Up to the point that they even hoisted the Imperial War Flag on the third anniversary of the Battle of Jutland.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:29 AM   #19
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 Exactly that was the problem - if it was meant to fight in the line (like the Emperor wanted), it was a capital ship of the line (Großlinienschiff) and thus, had to be fitted into an already exploited budget that opponents in parliament rather wanted to reduce than to increase.
You seem to miss my point. I'm saying:

1) The Naval Law already specified a given number of large cruisers.
2) If those large cruisers were to be of any use, they had to be able to face British large cruisers.
3) As a result, the cost of those large cruisers was dictated not by any force within Germany, but by what Britain was building.
4) Since Britain was building large cruisers with 12" (and later heavier) main batteries, the German large cruisers had to have something in that ballpark, which in turn determined in large part the size and expense of the ships.
5) Thus, before we even get to the point of whether the German large cruisers could stand in the line of battle, their cost was already determined to be on the scale of that of capital ships, just by the requirement that they be large cruisers, given that the bar for large cruiser had been raised by the British.
6) The second role was then determined by the fact that Germany couldn't afford to build a ship that expensive that couldn't stand in the line. The Kaiser may well have desired this as well, but it was forced on Germany by strategic considerations anyway, unless they wanted to give up trying to compete with the Royal Navy entirely.

The wisdom of playing matador to John Bull and having the Naval Law in the first place is questionable, but if the Naval Law was to be a thing, no other implementation made sense.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:19 AM   #20
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 2) If those large cruisers were to be of any use, they had to be able to face British large cruisers.
You expect such reasoning from a parliament that is dominated by people opposed to a war against the UK and an arms race?

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