Orbiter-Forum  

Go Back   Orbiter-Forum > Far Side of the Moon > Brighton Lounge
Register Blogs Orbinauts List Social Groups FAQ Projects Mark Forums Read

Brighton Lounge General off-topic discussions. Political or religious topics may only be posted in The Basement forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-22-2017, 02:38 PM   #91
Thorsten
Orbinaut
 
Thorsten's Avatar
Default

Quote:
The fastest sailing yacht Vestas Sailrocket 2 BTW reached 65 knots speed over 500 meters distance in 2012. Peaking at 68 Knots. At 25 knots winds. Thats already enough wind for letting smaller boats stay at home.
Sailing record I can understand. That's a combination of skill and design. Not madness.

Mounting a jet engine on a boat, waiting for the one day where the wind is so still that not even ripples are on the water and blazing away in the hope that there's *really* no wavelet that throws you out of the water however is something else entirely.
Thorsten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 03:09 PM   #92
Urwumpe
Not funny anymore
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorsten View Post
 Sailing record I can understand. That's a combination of skill and design. Not madness.
Was about similar to your jet engine case. This yacht was simply made for reaching maximum speed in a wave protected bay at good winds - on a straight line course.

From what I can tell, it did not even have the ability to do rapid turns.
Urwumpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 04:31 PM   #93
C3PO
Donator
 
C3PO's Avatar

Default

Modern bermuda rigs can go as close as 30 to the apparent wind. The trick is to balance the rig and the keel forces. Sailboats have large keels for a reason.

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:25 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Was about similar to your jet engine case. This yacht was simply made for reaching maximum speed in a wave protected bay at good winds - on a straight line course.

From what I can tell, it did not even have the ability to do rapid turns.
Wasn't there an "unofficial" record attempt using wings instead of sails? I'm not sure if it ever did a successful run. It was optimized for a specific wind angle, but totally unusable as a mode of transportation.
C3PO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 05:02 PM   #94
Urwumpe
Not funny anymore
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

I just read that the record for land sailing (using a sail on a wheeled trolley) is at 126 mph....

Urwumpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Old 10-23-2017, 03:35 PM   #95
boogabooga
Bug Crusher
 
boogabooga's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorsten View Post
 That's not the point of these record hunts. Any spacecraft already was way faster than an airplane long ago. Nobody is fascinated by that.

The point is to keep going with some defined challenge although technical progress made that pretty stupid. The jackass comparison is pretty much spot on (and that's what keeps people engaged). To top the stupidity, there's still the 'fastest boat' record to catch - more than 80% of people who tried so far died in the attempt. Doesn't keep yet more from killing themselves.
Reminds me of something I heard once, about the number of dead frozen bodies you have to climb over to get the the peak of Everest these days...
boogabooga is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Old 10-23-2017, 03:40 PM   #96
Urwumpe
Not funny anymore
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogabooga View Post
 Reminds me of something I heard once, about the number of dead frozen bodies you have to climb over to get the the peak of Everest these days...
Yeah - hardly surprising if you look WHO is climbing there. Money can buy you everything, but no good physique or mountain climbing experience.
Urwumpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Old 10-23-2017, 03:52 PM   #97
MaverickSawyer
Acolyte of the Probe
 
MaverickSawyer's Avatar
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Yeah - hardly surprising if you look WHO is climbing there. Money can buy you everything, but no good physique or mountain climbing experience.
As the Admiral in "Top Gun" said, "Your ego is writing checks your body can't cash."
MaverickSawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2017, 11:55 PM   #98
Notebook
Orbinaut
 
Notebook's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorsten View Post
 Sailing record I can understand. That's a combination of skill and design. Not madness.

Mounting a jet engine on a boat, waiting for the one day where the wind is so still that not even ripples are on the water and blazing away in the hope that there's *really* no wavelet that throws you out of the water however is something else entirely.

Sadly, done before:

Notebook is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Old 10-24-2017, 06:03 AM   #99
Thorsten
Orbinaut
 
Thorsten's Avatar
Default

Campbell is neither the first nor the last.

Quote:
With an approximate fatality rate of 85% since 1940,[1][2] the record is one of the sporting world's most hazardous competitions. Two official attempts to beat the 1978 record have resulted in the death of the driver; but despite this there are several teams working to make further attempts.
Source: Wikipedia Water Speed Record
Thorsten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 07:43 AM   #100
Notebook
Orbinaut
 
Notebook's Avatar

Default

Hopefully among the last.
I mention him as he was probably the "heroic" type that was around when I was growing up. Endeavours are more calculated these days.

The lake surface on the first run look perfect, sadly not on the return.

M.
Notebook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 08:40 AM   #101
Urwumpe
Not funny anymore
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notebook View Post
 Hopefully among the last.
I mention him as he was probably the "heroic" type that was around when I was growing up. Endeavours are more calculated these days.

The lake surface on the first run look perfect, sadly not on the return.

M.
Its pretty bad if you make your own waves, but it was claimed that this was not the problem - rather him not being able to take ballast to make sure he has stability while getting lighter by burning fuel. I would maybe think about using hydrofoils there instead of gliding, gliding requires VERY careful balance already at low speeds.
Urwumpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 09:06 AM   #102
Notebook
Orbinaut
 
Notebook's Avatar

Default

Bluebird looks incredibly stable at the first run, it looks almost out of the water.

N.
Notebook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 09:24 AM   #103
Urwumpe
Not funny anymore
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notebook View Post
 Bluebird looks incredibly stable at the first run, it looks almost out of the water.

N.
Yes, its gliding on the surface of the water and a cushion of air. That is also the problem - you get lighter, your CoG shifts and the center of pressure of the air cushion or the water can move pretty chaotic (In the sense of: Small change of CoG, big change of CoP)

If the CoP suddenly moves a large distance aft because of a almost invisible wave for a standing observer (which is a pretty steep wave for a Mach 0.5 fast boat), your bow will crash into the next wave and start to bounce, in the worst case at increasing amplitude.

That is pretty much what he reported via radio during his final seconds of life: He entered an instable regime and did not draw the right conclusions there, he should have aborted instead of throttling up. Instead, he increased the thrust, which increased the torque that pushed the bow down into the waves, worsening the oscillation. And then his engine failed deep in a wave, which then allowed it to bounce up too high to stay stable.

But as I see it, even with the engine running at full thrust, it was just a matter of time until his boat would have failed aerodynamically.
Urwumpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 03:50 PM   #104
Notebook
Orbinaut
 
Notebook's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Bloodhound supersonic carries out first public runs
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-41747995

Quote:
At over 400mph, the wheels can no longer turn as fast as the car moves and act more like the rudders on a boat.
Is this accurate? Implies the wheels are just slipping, not rolling?

N.
Notebook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 04:07 PM   #105
Urwumpe
Not funny anymore
 
Urwumpe's Avatar

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notebook View Post
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-41747995



Is this accurate? Implies the wheels are just slipping, not rolling?

N.
Seems so. Would still mean the wheels are turning extremely fast. I would have expected them to be about as fast as the car will go, but unable to really steer the car, about like driving on snow.
Urwumpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
Reply

  Orbiter-Forum > Far Side of the Moon > Brighton Lounge


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:41 AM.

Quick Links Need Help?


About Us | Rules & Guidelines | TOS Policy | Privacy Policy

Orbiter-Forum is hosted at Orbithangar.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2017, Orbiter-Forum.com. All rights reserved.