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Default Silver Spitfire. Coming to an airport near you.
by Notebook 08-05-2019, 08:17 AM

Well, maybe. Depends where you live.

https://www.silverspitfire.com/

Not sure about the shiny finish. The Mustang got away with it, but that was a bulkier design.
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:10 PM   #2
Marijn
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Quote:
By ‘de-militarising’ the aircraft in this manner we aim to highlight the timeless beauty of its design. With a plane that is less provocative than one adorned with camouflage paint, we hope to broaden the appeal and reach of the project, and gain easier access to nations en route.
These kind of planes should be restored to their original colors and symbols. Less provocative? Who is provocated by a restored Spitfire? Apparantly, there's some politics going on. I can only hope it will a proper paint job afterwards. This is not what a Spitfire should look like.
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Old 08-05-2019, 02:43 PM   #3
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Beautiful aircraft. But I agree, that's just plain weird.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:22 PM   #4
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There is always at least one who feels offenced by anything...
But I must also say that I kind of feel irritated by the "color" of the Spitfire...looks way to much like a wrist-watch-advertisement.
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:18 PM   #5
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Check the tail (the 'pointyness') of the Spitfire on the picture which is displayed on page https://www.silverspitfire.com/expedition/

That's a different tail than the one we can see in this vid:


Did they photoshop a wrong mk for the website?
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Old 08-05-2019, 05:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Marijn View Post
 These kind of planes should be restored to their original colors and symbols. Less provocative? Who is provocated by a restored Spitfire? Apparantly, there's some politics going on. I can only hope it will a proper paint job afterwards. This is not what a Spitfire should look like.

Yeah, its no Bf 109 with Svastika. But those are already so ugly from the metal inside, there is no paint job to make them beautiful.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:10 PM   #7
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 Yeah, its no Bf 109 with Svastika. But those are already so ugly from the metal inside, there is no paint job to make them beautiful.
A Bf 109 is a beautiful machine too, in a badass kind of way. The yellow and red noses.. It's mean looking, fitting the role in the tale just perfectly.

Sometimes I have these weird thoughts. What if.. The Spitfire design was German and the Bf 109 British, while keeping everything else the same? Would it have changed the coutcome of the Battle of Britain? Would the Spitfire be equally iconic in later years?
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:47 PM   #8
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Probably not mush difference, the Hurricane shot down more than the spitfire.

Also UK probably had the best air-defence system at that time. They had radar and a control system that was geared up to fight a defensive air-war which is what the RAF had planned and trained for.
If the German strategy had remained the same, the outcome would have been similar.
Germany would not have achieved air-superiority which was required for invasion.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:32 PM   #9
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That's very true. The organization on the ground to guard the airspace was quite sopisticated. The problem of the German strategy I think was not sticking to one in particular.
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marijn View Post
 A Bf 109 is a beautiful machine too, in a badass kind of way. The yellow and red noses.. It's mean looking, fitting the role in the tale just perfectly.

I don't think this saves the many bulges and corners and sticking-out things of it. The Spitfire looks almost organic in comparison... and it is still less optimized as the P-51D.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Marijn View Post
  Sometimes I have these weird thoughts. What if.. The Spitfire design was German and the Bf 109 British, while keeping everything else the same? Would it have changed the coutcome of the Battle of Britain? Would the Spitfire be equally iconic in later years?

No. It would have been the same outcome of the war - the politicians would have had to change there. Maybe Göring was a great combat ace in WW1, but he was a terrible joke in WW2. The air war was lost on the ground. If the Germans had the Spitfire, it would have been forced to carry bombs as well, some idiocy that made many great planes bad.



With a smarter strategy, the Battle of Britain might have been a closer call for the UK, maybe the German invasion could even have been a success. But for what? Conquering a country does not mean you can keep it. It would have consumed many resources that would have been needed for Hitlers primary goal of conquering southern Russia.



Forcing Britain to accept a quick ceasefire would have been more likely. But again, that would have required a completely different strategy than the historic one and would have meant that full scale invasion is not the goal - daily sabotage by special forces would have been easier and would have saved critical resources. Even getting the Royal Navy out of the picture would have been a more realistic goal than an invasion.



Again - Germany used a very poor strategy against Britain, while Britain quickly developed the best air defense strategy of its time. After a few months of hard, deadly lessons for Britain, it was impossible for Germany to change the tide of war. Britain got a chance and use it perfectly.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:35 PM   #11
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Taking your points in no particular order(because I'm like that!)

If the Luftwaffe had kept up the original policy of attacking airfields and making the RAF defend them they could have won a war of attrition?
I'm sure Churchill(who was a ruthless character in wartime) would have pursued that even to the destruction of the RAF.

With his background at the Admiralty he would have sent the Home Fleet into the Channel as soon as invasion barges were seen. Who knows what might have happened then though I suspect a pyrrhic victory with the invasion stopped and the Home Fleet decimated.(he wanted the Captain of HMS Prince of Wales court martialled after withdrawing after the sinking of HMS Hood).

Who knows but alternate history is always interesting. Especially with hindsight.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Notebook View Post
  If the Luftwaffe had kept up the original policy of attacking airfields and making the RAF defend them they could have won a war of attrition?
I'm sure Churchill(who was a ruthless character in wartime) would have pursued that even to the destruction of the RAF.

I don't think this is enough, because airfields can be repaired quite easily and back then it was even easier than today.



My own decision would have been suppressing enough of the RAF. The Luftwaffe could never have attacked the north of Britain and Churchill knew it - Scapa Flow was practically out of reach without an aircraft carrier. I can't control the whole of Britain - but I can limit the options of Churchill. If I would be as ruthless as the Nazis, I could even depopulate the Isle of Wright to have a secure airbase that permits attacking England up to Leeds. And secure air superiority for some months over Southern England (until the inevitable reinforcements arrive from across the pond)





Quote:
Originally Posted by Notebook View Post
 With his background at the Admiralty he would have sent the Home Fleet into the Channel as soon as invasion barges were seen. Who knows what might have happened then though I suspect a pyrrhic victory with the invasion stopped and the Home Fleet decimated.(he wanted the Captain of HMS Prince of Wales court martialled after withdrawing after the sinking of HMS Hood).

Yes - and my plan would have been going Singapur on them in that Situation. As soon as they leave port, I would be deciding where I attack them. I can choose the where and the when - when I have air superiority. Which I need for invasion anyway.



Also, I would need just one hour across the channel, but the Home fleet multiple days from a safe base when I have air superiority. They would arrive late anyway and would be better off planning a counter-invasion - open a second front when the German invasion is about to stall. Especially Wales would be a good place there, since it is hard to defend for foreign forces and the Luftwaffe would have the worst territory there to fight ground forces.



I don't think Germany has many chances of winning this battle even with a better strategy - but they could have been much more annoying. It is all a matter of how many months Germany could keep the initiative. Securing full control over Britain would be impossible, preventing reinforcements from the USA or Canada would be impossible as well. The maximum possible would have been a ceasefire, securing the occupation of France and preventing easy resupply routes to Russia. At least for some years. Since a ceasefire situation would also mean that the Commonwealth would fall apart already like it did after WW2 (because the Empire was too weak to fight the centrifugal forces), It would be a strategic victory for the full war. The UK would not be defeated. But would be no longer a global power.



Next would be the USSR....and that would be far less likely to be a success, especially since Stalin was an opponent who was way more evil than Hitler. Both had been mass murderers, but Stalin clearly outclassed Hitler.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:21 PM   #13
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Unlike what I learned at a younger age, now I think it's the case that the British were actually able, overall, to replace their losses at a more favorable rate than the Germans. Replacing pilots was a bigger problem, bat that was a grim fact for the Germans too.

Putting capital ships in The Channel without air support would mean they'll be soon put out of action by enemy dive bombers I think.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:31 PM   #14
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Operation Sealion is a fascinating scenario to contemplate. England has never been a good place to defend once an invader gets a foothold.
We never got rid of the Normans, and the Vikings eventually got tired of the bad weather and went further South.
I'm fairly sure Churchill would have risked the Home Fleet if enough aircover remained to escort it down the East coast. Mines, U-Boats, surface vessels notwithstanding.
Even if they arrived late, they could still stop reinforcements without which the invasion would fail.

Best last attempt was from here.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...n-1565642.html

But as they got away with it, we pretend it didn't happen.
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Old 08-05-2019, 09:44 PM   #15
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I would like to restrict this a bit more: Sometimes the invaders had been welcome. The Normans had their success by not only hitting Anglosaxon England at their weakest time (right after barely defeating a Norwegian invasion, without a heir to the throne), but also by quickly getting popular among the citizens of the cities. Hastings was not the only battle, but the decisive one.

I doubt this would have applied to Nazi Germany
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