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Old 10-10-2018, 09:20 AM   #976
gattispilot
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I did that just to see if thruster were covered by mesh

---------- Post added at 04:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 AM ----------



Not I need to figure the guidance.
Code:
-30.000 =orbit(403.00,408,51.64)
-6.0 =engine(0,100,6)
150.0 =inverse()
450 = Destroy()
The PeA and AeA and angle are of the ISS which is my target
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Old 10-26-2018, 02:56 AM   #977
Chris74
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ok Guys, so...
any chance for a working version for Orbiter2016 in the near future...?

kinda annoying that nothing much works anymore, no multistage, no velcro, no spacecraft, no titans, no deltas...

is something being cooked here ...?
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:07 AM   #978
DaveS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris74 View Post
 ok Guys, so...
any chance for a working version for Orbiter2016 in the near future...?

kinda annoying that nothing much works anymore, no multistage, no velcro, no spacecraft, no titans, no deltas...

is something being cooked here ...?
Here you go: https://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=7010
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:28 AM   #979
Chris74
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?? Hi!
What do you mean? this doesnt work. i just did a complete orbiter reinstall 2 weeks ago.
basically nothing apart from ravenstar works from the popular addons in O2016.

i mean the inculded 3 test scenarios work, but nohing else, it constantly appchrashes when i try to run any addon that is dependent on it for example MS2015 titans or Soyuz...

rockets blow up, or disappear in mid air, and stages appear in weird configurations, etc...

what do you use that works with this?
thx.


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Old 10-26-2018, 06:49 AM   #980
IronRain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris74 View Post
 ?? Hi!
What do you mean? this doesnt work. i just did a complete orbiter reinstall 2 weeks ago.
basically nothing apart from ravenstar works from the popular addons in O2016.

i mean the inculded 3 test scenarios work, but nohing else, it constantly appchrashes when i try to run any addon that is dependent on it for example MS2015 titans or Soyuz...

rockets blow up, or disappear in mid air, and stages appear in weird configurations, etc...

what do you use that works with this?
thx.
I'm afraid you have to be more specific (and maybe open a separate thread as well) about your problems. MS2015 Titans works well for me, and there are multiple Soyuz add-ons, so it totally depends on which one you're using.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:45 PM   #981
fred18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris74 View Post
 ?? Hi!
What do you mean? this doesnt work. i just did a complete orbiter reinstall 2 weeks ago.
basically nothing apart from ravenstar works from the popular addons in O2016.

i mean the inculded 3 test scenarios work, but nohing else, it constantly appchrashes when i try to run any addon that is dependent on it for example MS2015 titans or Soyuz...

rockets blow up, or disappear in mid air, and stages appear in weird configurations, etc...

what do you use that works with this?
thx.
Can we have more details on that? the version of the linked is made expressly for the official release of Orbiter2016 (Note: not the Beta, the official one). Nobody ever complained about it, so your must be a particular case. Can you take me a specific example with log file and everything so I can investigate and try to be of assistance?

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Old 10-29-2018, 02:30 PM   #982
4throck
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"i mean the inculded 3 test scenarios work"

Your problem might be with Orbiter itself.
Orbiter must work 100% before you can add any addons.

Tell us exactly what scenarios work or not.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:01 PM   #983
fred18
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I have a question for the forum... I had a small exchange with Uwrumpe some days ago about the architecture of Multistage and I gave it some thougths, but I have a doubt and I was wondering what you guys think about it:

let's say that I move on and switch the architecture of Multistage from the unique vessel which spawns the used stages to a new concept made of separate vessels attached one to the other (I said attached, because docked is possible but I found the docking available commands too general to manage such a complicated situation like Multistage module is).

It will mean then that the core vessel should be the last stage of my multistage rocket, which is intuitive, since I would need it to manage everything that goes on before.

So I thought of an architecture where the last stage is the core stage, and it creates all the other stages, it attaches them to it and among themselves, and creates the rocket. that's easy.

Now when I want to use it I would focus on the last/core stage and "drive" the rocket from there, right? BUT if I do it this way and I don't let the rocket drive itself automatically, when I will press the + button the engines of the core stage will fire instead of the ones of the first stage. Same story for the attitude control and everything.

There could be a way of intercepting all the important keys and send the commands to the appropriate stage, but that would be very heavy to build and would exclude for example the usage of joystics and other similar devices.

What do you guys think about this kind of topic? how do you see it? hearing the point of views of many users of the addon may enlight me on some solution about this.

Thanks guys, and cheers

Fred

EDIT: I just realized that since there could only be attachments, the only way to make the rocket actually fly is if the core stage itself is the thruster... so the issue above is solved automatically. The biggest issue that I see is that I don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze to make such a complex new architecture like this if in the end the change is almost only cosmetic

Last edited by fred18; 10-31-2018 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:04 AM   #984
IronRain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred18 View Post
 I have a question for the forum... I had a small exchange with Uwrumpe some days ago about the architecture of Multistage and I gave it some thougths, but I have a doubt and I was wondering what you guys think about it:

let's say that I move on and switch the architecture of Multistage from the unique vessel which spawns the used stages to a new concept made of separate vessels attached one to the other (I said attached, because docked is possible but I found the docking available commands too general to manage such a complicated situation like Multistage module is).

It will mean then that the core vessel should be the last stage of my multistage rocket, which is intuitive, since I would need it to manage everything that goes on before.

So I thought of an architecture where the last stage is the core stage, and it creates all the other stages, it attaches them to it and among themselves, and creates the rocket. that's easy.

Now when I want to use it I would focus on the last/core stage and "drive" the rocket from there, right? BUT if I do it this way and I don't let the rocket drive itself automatically, when I will press the + button the engines of the core stage will fire instead of the ones of the first stage. Same story for the attitude control and everything.

There could be a way of intercepting all the important keys and send the commands to the appropriate stage, but that would be very heavy to build and would exclude for example the usage of joystics and other similar devices.

What do you guys think about this kind of topic? how do you see it? hearing the point of views of many users of the addon may enlight me on some solution about this.

Thanks guys, and cheers

Fred

EDIT: I just realized that since there could only be attachments, the only way to make the rocket actually fly is if the core stage itself is the thruster... so the issue above is solved automatically. The biggest issue that I see is that I don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze to make such a complex new architecture like this if in the end the change is almost only cosmetic
I'm not entirely sure I'm useful in this discussion, mostly because I lack Orbiter development (C++, to be more specific) knowledge.

However, I'd like to say that I think the developer tool in MS2015 is one of the most useful things in Orbiter. It made creating missions so much easier and faster. It gives me a bit a KSP feeling (I'm not a KSP guy, but this is a good thing).

Personally, I think that calling it something like "developer tool" (I'm not sure what it's exactly called anymore ) really undermines it's functions, since it's essentially a rocket builder. Since this is about the future I just want to raise this as something that might be taken into consideration as well.

Quote:
The biggest issue that I see is that I don't know if the juice is worth the squeeze to make such a complex new architecture like this if in the end the change is almost only cosmetic
Cosmetic changes are not bad, it's a matter how much time you'd like to spend on it
In other projects, I've experienced that these kind of changes might be really useful later on.

Just my
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:19 AM   #985
4throck
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"The last stage is the core stage, and it creates all the other stages, it attaches them to it and among themselves, and creates the rocket. "
Good in theory, not in practice.

You can't take an existing vessel (lets say DG) and make it your core vessel, unless you recode it!

I think that a better payload / rocket interaction could be achieved by introducing a "control stage" (logical only, no mesh).
The placement of the stage on the stack could be used to indicate where the rocket ends, and the payload vessel starts.
That stage would be configured to intercept/sends vessel commands (like J for jetisson...), automatically select vessels, etc.
I think such a system could handle most situations.


Practical example:

Your vessel caries a satellite to deploy at 150km.
The vessel has key commands for opening the cargo doors (ALT+D) and then releasing the satellite (ALT+J).
You attach your vessel as live paypload to the multistage rocket.
Multistage launch with a desired 300km x 300km orbit. So you need to release the satellites while the autopilot is running.
Multistage "control stage" sends the intended key presses to the payload vessel at the right altitudes.


A simple syntax could be:

[ControlStage]
Logic = AtAltitude (150000, "ALT+D", "TargetVessel")
Logic = AtAltitude (151000, "ALT+J", "TargetVessel")

(TargetVessel could be omitted, defaulting to whatever is defined on the stack after the "control stage")

Last edited by 4throck; 10-31-2018 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 10-31-2018, 09:50 AM   #986
fred18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronRain View Post
 However, I'd like to say that I think the developer tool in MS2015 is one of the most useful things in Orbiter. It made creating missions so much easier and faster. It gives me a bit a KSP feeling (I'm not a KSP guy, but this is a good thing).

Personally, I think that calling it something like "developer tool" (I'm not sure what it's exactly called anymore ) really undermines it's functions, since it's essentially a rocket builder. Since this is about the future I just want to raise this as something that might be taken into consideration as well.
That is a very interesting feedback: the Developer tool is something that was really "costly" in terms of time necessary to make it and is also a bit of a stopper some time because it is strongly tied in the code of MS and if I want to change something in the code I don't want to face issues in the tool... So my idea is to make this tool separate, so you have the rocket module which goes one way and the developer plugin which goes in parallel but with its own code.

Relevant to KSP, the tool started because I thought about doing something like this: having a Database of stages which you load from the tool and you assembly on the rocket. I never played KSP but I know it works more or less like this. I will keep a thought on that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IronRain View Post
 Cosmetic changes are not bad, it's a matter how much time you'd like to spend on it
In other projects, I've experienced that these kind of changes might be really useful later on.
That's very true: in order to change something "cosmetic" then you find yourself on the path of some serious overall improvement.

Thanks!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 I think that a better payload / rocket interaction could be achieved by introducing a "control stage" (logical only, no mesh).
The placement of the stage on the stack could be used to indicate where the rocket ends, and the payload vessel starts.
That stage would be configured to intercept/sends vessel commands (like J for jetisson...), automatically select vessels, etc.
I think such a system could handle most situations.
That could be a way too, by extend it could even be a plugin and not a vessel which controls everything... Another thing to think about!
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Old 11-01-2018, 04:01 AM   #987
boogabooga
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I'm not sure that I follow your plan, but I wan to add one point regarding multiple attached vessel stacks: JUst make sure that the vessel that ends up in orit is the one that starts outon the pad.

IIRC, in old Velcro rockets, you launched from the bottom stage focus and ended up in the upper stage focus. This made it difficult for intrplanetary missions because it reset all the MFDs, and you had replan your IMFDs, etc.
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Old 11-01-2018, 04:11 AM   #988
Donamy
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We need another remote vessel control that accepts key inputs, works with SC3 and works in Orbiter 2016.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:02 PM   #989
fred18
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Originally Posted by boogabooga View Post
 I'm not sure that I follow your plan, but I wan to add one point regarding multiple attached vessel stacks: JUst make sure that the vessel that ends up in orit is the one that starts outon the pad.

IIRC, in old Velcro rockets, you launched from the bottom stage focus and ended up in the upper stage focus. This made it difficult for intrplanetary missions because it reset all the MFDs, and you had replan your IMFDs, etc.
That's another important point, that will stand for having the last stage as the core stage that drives all the package.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:03 PM   #990
4throck
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A "vesselcontrol.dll" would be nice and could be used standalone (without multistage) if needed.

It could run on top of existing vessels and add the landing point equation for instant 2016 compatibility.
That alone would make the effort worth your time....

The basic functionality would be:
- define a set of vessel parameters for launch, another set after jettison;
- support 2016 only parameters to make older payload vessels compatible;
- intercept or send key presses;
- handle vessel focus, attachment or docking during / after jettison
- work standalone from multistage, adding functionality to existing vessels

Last edited by 4throck; 11-01-2018 at 06:08 PM.
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