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Old 04-10-2019, 03:39 PM   #31
Donamy
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Never look back, is my motto.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:40 PM   #32
gattispilot
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Originally Posted by Cras View Post
 If the few add-ons that my build is based around could port over. ISS 3.2, Shuttle Fleet, DanSteph's stuff.

Well There is alternative to Shuttle Fleet. Sure it doesn't have everything but most.


We have ISS to Z
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Donamy View Post
 Never look back, is my motto.
I like this one:
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:47 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Donamy View Post
 Never look back, is my motto.

I prefer some bigger cosmic wisdom there (Because I like retro stuff... especially for getting a feeling how long the way has been that we clumsy monkeys have come.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
 Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink our eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of mind is surprise. The only state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:33 PM   #35
Donamy
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Are you gonna eat that banana ?
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Old 04-11-2019, 02:08 AM   #36
Cras
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Its a dilemma for sure. I can break away and use 2016 but it ends up being just a side thing to try the new features. When I want to get serious, I want to go back and fly the manifest I drew up for myself to build a new spacestation, and those plans require addons that just dont translate. So for me its going to be 2016 on the side, but the main girl is still 2010p1.

Not advocating my position at all, dont want to give the impression I am saying everyone should stick with 2010. The more people that use the new stuff the better for the overall health of the sim I reckon.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:39 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Cras View Post
 Its a dilemma for sure. I can break away and use 2016 but it ends up being just a side thing to try the new features. When I want to get serious, I want to go back and fly the manifest I drew up for myself to build a new spacestation, and those plans require addons that just dont translate. So for me its going to be 2016 on the side, but the main girl is still 2010p1.

Not advocating my position at all, dont want to give the impression I am saying everyone should stick with 2010. The more people that use the new stuff the better for the overall health of the sim I reckon.

Well, I more wonder about features/functionality added by add-ons, not specific add-ons.



After all, if people look back, something might be missing in 2016, that 2010 had. But that does not mean that 2016 must be exactly like 2010 again and have the same add-ons. How could 2016 be better than 2010 otherwise? So, working on adding the missing functionality would be necessary, while also going ahead and not wait for specific closed source add-ons to be revived.


For example: Maybe it would be better to create an open-source "Common Vessel Base Library" middleware that unites Ummu, UCGO and other add-ons instead of using the same combination in many add-ons the whole time.



So, when the next version of Orbiter comes, only one add-on library needs to be raised to the new standard and hopefully, most of the backwards compatibility for other add-ons would be at least reduced to recompile the add-on DLL against the new middleware version.


Or having better editors for bases again, but make it easier to add content to Orbiter. The "World of 2001" is one such add-on that pretty much suffers from the more complex terrain now.



Sorry, but I am progressive and I prefer to talk about solutions instead of talking about problems...
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:29 AM   #38
4throck
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The WO2001 bases work with terrain, once you remove a few meshes, remove shadows, etc.
But with no editor it's a bit of trial and error.

The main issue is the extra work and time needed, for something that I agree adds very little.
A terrain flattening tool would be best for this, since it could be automated (we have base center coordinates and radius on the base config).

A proper solution would terrain export to a mesh, so that one could model over existing terrain.
Sketchup did this back in the day with Google Earth terrain. You could model based on terrain and satellite images.

Last edited by 4throck; 04-11-2019 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 04-11-2019, 11:54 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 A proper solution would terrain export to a mesh, so that one could model over existing terrain.
Sketchup did this back in the day with Google Earth terrain. You could model based on terrain and satellite images.
Yes, I wonder if a similar tool could also be made for Orbiter, just using a selected Orbiter data set as terrain reference.
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Old 04-11-2019, 12:11 PM   #40
fred18
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Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 A terrain flattening tool would be best for this, since it could be automated (we have base center coordinates and radius on the base config).
I really believe that this is the key for this topic. I have not studied the terrain structure but IMO basically when you put a base or a portion of base that square area (square defined by 4 couple of coordinates or better by the center and a size) should be flat at a certain altitude, automatically. This means that the particular rendering of the base part overrides the overall terrain rendering for that portions, just joining the edge (smoothly if possible). This would allow that you do not need to modify the terrain file or anything, you just put in the base and that's it. and if you remove it, the land below will just be rendered back as before the base was there.

I think that if this somehow comes to orbiter suddenly all the bases could be imported with a very little work and that would be super!
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:28 PM   #41
Face
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 I think that if this somehow comes to orbiter suddenly all the bases could be imported with a very little work and that would be super!
I think this idea can be incorporated in the D3D9Client by community effort. The code is there, just plug this in (perhaps with some proprietary extra config file), then test and see how it goes. If it is any good, Martin could back-port it into MOGE.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:31 PM   #42
fred18
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 I think this idea can be incorporated in the D3D9Client by community effort. The code is there, just plug this in (perhaps with some proprietary extra config file), then test and see how it goes. If it is any good, Martin could back-port it into MOGE.
I surely agree here. I have no idea of how it works in actual D3D9 code, so it is up to Jarmo, kuddel and all the (amazing) D3D9 team. I offer myself from now to support this for help and the description of the idea in details.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:35 PM   #43
Face
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Originally Posted by fred18 View Post
 I surely agree here. I have no idea of how it works in actual D3D9 code, so it is up to Jarmo, kuddel and all the (amazing) D3D9 team. I offer myself from now to support this for help and the description of the idea in details.
Don't be so humble there, I'm sure you are more than capable to figure it out as well.
Take a look, in essence there is a TileManager2 class that loads and interprets the proprietary tile format, then does the tesselation. If this class also loads some base flattening config file, it could work out the coordinates and override the given vertices.
Sure, it would be a D3D9-only solution, but if it is any good, I'm sure Martin would consider using it in the stock engine as well.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:39 PM   #44
gattispilot
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Can't flattening happen now? I remember trying it and some how to do it. But maybe it needs to be refocused.
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Old 04-11-2019, 01:48 PM   #45
fred18
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 Can't flattening happen now? I remember trying it and some how to do it. But maybe it needs to be refocused.
What I am saying is to NOT modify the terrain tiles. But simply at rendering time if there is a specific base which has in cfg that it is at altitude X and with a size of Y, the render process will render INSTEAD of the regular terrain elevation a square flat area of side 2Y at altitude X.

So there will be no need to edit the tiles or whatever to make the bases work

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------

I'm not sure if it can be only a matter of graphic anyway: if I land on a runway in that base the surface contact must be there
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