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Old 07-25-2017, 06:44 PM   #1156
Urwumpe
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Originally Posted by Artlav View Post
 Crap.

I didn't quite believe this was possible, but here i am downloading a friggin 30 Gb game.

In the LPs of it it does not look like it should need any more than maybe a hundred Mb, but 30 Gb it is...
I am also not sure if the 30 GB are really justified for many games... but for some they clearly are... like the Witcher III.
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:06 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by SolarLiner View Post
 This has been Window's big problem recently, IMHO: Blah blah blah
Just go to here https://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=38491 and get rid of all that crap.
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:26 PM   #1158
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From the Chatbox last night:

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Originally Posted by Chatbox
  [04-03, 15:01]RisingFury Good thing I went for 32 GB of RAM and not 16. I'm using up almost 10 right now and I'm not even being messy yet

04-03, 22:13] jgrillo2002 @RF Im due for an upgrade at the end of this year

[04-03, 22:13] jgrillo2002 Win7 is going to go kaput in 2020

[04-03, 22:14] jgrillo2002 thanks to M$' forceful to it's customers to upgrade to win 10

[04-03, 22:46] Linguofreak Meh, 10 years is a good run. It's equivalent to the span between DOS 2.0 and NT

[04-03, 22:50] Linguofreak But if you're that bent out of shape over it, join the Linux hordes.

[04-03, 22:51] Linguofreak Coincidentally, I've been using Linux as my primary OS for just about 10 years.

[04-03, 22:54] Linguofreak But, if you switch, you'll find that OSes and UIs change even without corporate avarice. It's somewhat easier to keep the stuff you like going for a long time in the open source world, but there are still just as many developers that think they know

[04-03, 22:55] Linguofreak better than everybody else trying to fix what ain't broke.

[04-03, 22:58] Linguofreak You should switch anyways, but Win7 going away isn't because MS is especially evil.

[04-03, 23:53] jgrillo2002 the problem with Win10 is the fact that it is known to be privacy invasive to the point where they take screenshots and key log your entries

[04-03, 23:53] jgrillo2002 and that is scary

[04-03, 23:53] jgrillo2002 and I will not stand for it

[05-03, 01:30] jangofett287 Good thing it does none of those things and most privacy concerns were actually incompetent tech journalists over reacting to the insider builds which are supposed to be full of instrumentation.

[05-03, 01:33] jangofett287 Oh, and windows 7 is not going to magically stop working next year, nor is it somehow going to suddenly become catastrophically insecure.

[05-03, 01:35] Linguofreak Which isn't to say that it won't become progressively more insecure as more and more vulnerabilities are discovered that MS is no longer patching, but it Win7 won't detonate the moment support ends.

[05-03, 01:39] Woo482 Don't they still let you pay a ridiculously high fee for extended support? that could be an option

[05-03, 01:45] Linguofreak There are serious security concerns with putting any proprietary code that talks to the network into a position where that code has access to important things, so I'm not going to say that privacy concerns with windows are overblown, but,

[05-03, 01:46] Linguofreak Bleah, accidentally hit enter before I was dine typing

[05-03, 01:50] Linguofreak ... but "Win10 is currently logging keystrokes and screenshots" does not properly express the very real dangers that Windows, MacOS, iOS, and even most Android systems pose to their users.

[05-03, 02:00] Artlav The thing i didn't like from my brief exposure to Win10 was having to constantly fight the system. It does whatever it wants whenever it wants regardless of what user asks.

[05-03, 02:01] Artlav Then again, i'm a down-to-the-metal kind of user, so it's not necessarily a flaw.

[05-03, 02:13] jangofett287 @Linguo Are you implying that because those OSes were made by large corporations they must be compromised in some way? I won't deny those companies have privacy concerns, but saying that their OSes are "a threat" to their users is hyperbole at best.

[05-03, 02:24] dbeachy1 Feel free to take it to the OS Wars mega thread, all https://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=6430
My reply to jangofett287:

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Originally Posted by jangofett287
 @Linguo Are you implying that because those OSes were made by large corporations they must be compromised in some way? I won't deny those companies have privacy concerns, but saying that their OSes are "a threat" to their users is hyperbole at best.
1) Because Windows, MacOS, and iOS are proprietary, it is not provable, by building from source independently and comparing the result to the distributed binaries, that they do not by design compromise the user's security. This does not just apply to OSes: the firmware on most computing systems is a black box with frightening security implications, especially so on mobile devices and increasingly so on desktop systems, and while the amount of damage that applications can do is somewhat limited by OS-level security restrictions (assuming the OS is secure), any proprietary application that you allow to handle sensitive data has the potential to compromise that data.

1a) While the Linux kernel and the core Android userland are open source, Google succeeded with Google Play where IBM failed with Micro Channel Architecture, in terms of reproprietarizing the open architecture they had unleashed upon the world: While possible, it is very, very difficult for a western vendor to release a successful Android device that does not use Google Play, which is proprietary (and which Google pushes is very anti-competitive ways, I might add). Chinese vendors are having more success with such things in China, but that isn't very reassuring, see 4).

2) Apple and Microsoft are trying to play the ad-driven cloud vendor game these days, and Google started out that way. This gives them a lot of perverse incentives to include outright malicious behavior in their OSes, although considerations of plausible deniability and being able to rationalize their behavior to themselves will tend to prevent them from being too outright about it, which is why the idea of direct keylogging and screenshots is (for the moment, as a matter of what is typically deployed, in the West) silly.

3) The always-on-the-network nature of modern computing requires software to receive regular over-the-network updates to keep abreast of security bugs. The nature of such updates makes the updates themselves a potential threat vector, even for open-source software, though considerations of plausible deniability make malicious updates less viable in that sector.

4) The three most powerful governments in the world are the US, China, and Russia. China is currently the first or second most repressive tyranny that has ever existed, and is known to have a terrifying surveillance regime, Russia was, a few decades ago, the second or third most repressive tyranny that had ever existed, and is currently in the process of backsliding towards that condition, hard, and the US, while still a less-or-more functioning democracy, has been demonstrated to be operating a domestic surveillance regime, in flagrant violation of its Constitution, with the potential to enable grinding despotism. Any of these regimes might, at any time, targeting either a specific user or the general public, coerce a software vendor into including backdoors into their product, and if that vendor's software is proprietary, would be able to do so with perfect plausible deniability.

1) and 3) show that the vendors for the systems being discussed have opportunity to create malicious software, 2) shows that they have a "carrot" motive in terms of their own self interest, and 4) shows that they have a "stick" motive in terms of likely duress from known malicious actors with the power to apply that duress.

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:10 ----------

Just an incidental note: It was the early discussions in this thread, 10 years ago, that motivated me to go from complaining about Windows to actually trying Linux. Time flies.
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:30 AM   #1159
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Win7 is going to go kaput in 2020
...which is a ridiculously long livespan for any piece of software, much less one that is so essential to security and needs to interact that closely with hardware...

Bloody hell, in Switzerland most people don't have their cars for that long...
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Old 07-30-2019, 10:14 AM   #1160
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I'm somewhat shocked, but wish I could say I was surprised, to find myself in the position of likely switching to KDE in the near future. When I started using Linux 10 years ago, KDE was ahead of almost all of the competition, but GNOME at that time was, by a long shot, the best desktop environment that has ever existed. Unfortunately, GNOME has spent most of that time rotting into a festering pile of Apple-esque Fisher Price ooze, and while I jumped ship to MATE years ago, the entire GTK ecosystem has been decaying at a somewhat slower pace since the GNOME project controls GTK. In the past few years, both MATE and XFCE have gone to GTK3, which brings MATE down from world class to merely good. The MATE project really should have forked GTK along with GNOME. KDE, meanwhile, isn't a lot better than what I remember, but unlike practically every other desktop out there (other than MacOS, which was already bad), it hasn't gotten significantly worse in the past decade, so it's it ahead of the pack by default.
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Old 07-30-2019, 01:41 PM   #1161
Artlav
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 I'm somewhat shocked, but wish I could say I was surprised, to find myself in the position of likely switching to KDE in the near future.
Why not XFCE? Been using it since forever, it's clean and does not get in your way.
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Old 07-30-2019, 07:20 PM   #1162
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 Why not XFCE? Been using it since forever, it's clean and does not get in your way.
Also uses GTK3 these days: I don't like a lot of the GTK3 dialogs, in particular the file chooser dialog, and GTK also has a crapton of deprecated functionality deliberate regressions in theming.

MATE and XFCE haven't regressed in the non-toolkit stuff, but the system toolkit is half the reason for using a desktop environment, and GNOME has been driving GTK into the ground. If the MATE and XFCE projects aren't willing to fork GTK and maintain their own version, I can't blame them for going to GTK3, as GTK2 isn't maintained anymore, but someone really ought to fork GTK. A GTK2+i would salvage the GTK ecosystem, but at this point QT seems to be the trustworthy toolkit with a slow and steady, "don't break anything" development philosophy.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:48 PM   #1163
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Sometimes it baffles me just how inefficient Windows can be at the most basic tasks. I am currently moving (or trying to move) a couple of files (well, ok, about 10^5 of them, but still...) from one directory to another. The two directories are on the same file system, so no physical data transfer of the file contents should be required, only directory entry updates. I would naively assume that this should take a few seconds at most. Yet, for the last 3 hours or so, Windows is informing me that it is "preparing to move" and "discovering items" (apparently it has discovered zero so far). Now call me a slave-driver, but when I ask the OS to move files, I'd expect it to do so promptly, instead of embarking on a journey of self-discovery. Is there a way to tell Windows to stop discovering and just get on with the job?

I wonder if I should carry around a Linux installation on a memory stick so I can just plug it in and quickly switch over to Linux whenever I need to do heavy-duty file operations.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:54 PM   #1164
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It's probably having to do lots of physical disk head seeking to read the file info for all 100,000 files. According to this, you could try moving the files using the Windows Command Prompt, since it appears that an extra validation occurs when moving files using Windows Explorer (perhaps so it can count all the files up front and show a progress bar?). It does seem odd that it takes 3 hours, though.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:05 PM   #1165
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Good call! I abandoned my movement attempt via explorer and used the terminal instead. Took about two minutes, much of which may have been spent on just echoing the file names in the terminal window.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:09 PM   #1166
Linguofreak
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Originally Posted by martins View Post
 Sometimes it baffles me just how inefficient Windows can be at the most basic tasks. I am currently moving (or trying to move) a couple of files (well, ok, about 10^5 of them, but still...) from one directory to another. The two directories are on the same file system, so no physical data transfer of the file contents should be required, only directory entry updates. I would naively assume that this should take a few seconds at most. Yet, for the last 3 hours or so, Windows is informing me that it is "preparing to move" and "discovering items" (apparently it has discovered zero so far). Now call me a slave-driver, but when I ask the OS to move files, I'd expect it to do so promptly, instead of embarking on a journey of self-discovery. Is there a way to tell Windows to stop discovering and just get on with the job?

I wonder if I should carry around a Linux installation on a memory stick so I can just plug it in and quickly switch over to Linux whenever I need to do heavy-duty file operations.
Ehhhhhh.

Yeah, keeping the files at the same place on disk and just updating directory entries is what *should* happen, but if it is trying to move data, it could end up spending most of its time seeking between two locations (if your drive is the "spinning rust" type and not an SSD), which could tank performance bigtime. I can't promise that Linux will do any better, but I don't recall any large intra-filesystem moves ever having behaved like that, but, OTOH, I can't recall the last time that I tried doing something like that (though it would be more likely to stick in my memory if it had gone poorly).
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Old 10-11-2019, 02:18 AM   #1167
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I'm still baffled that there are people out there that use Windows Explorer for managing files. To me it feels like doing something through a borescope - you see nothing, you control nothing, basic operations are as complicated as possible and require third-party software, and apparently it's also not very efficient.

Then again, i've been using Norton (Volkov, Windows, Total, Midnight, etc) Commander since the day my dad got a PC back in 1990.
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