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Old 02-25-2019, 10:46 AM   #16
fred18
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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
 I think this would create an issue with those payloads that were released and later during the mission retrieved back in the cargo bay. The MPLM in some STS missions is an example.
Wait, 1 second: attachments, docking etc will keep working the normal way. I think that at the moment the Cargo bay has an attachment point and the mass of the orbiter gets updated if anything is attached to it.
If you want to recreate it, you just create a regular docking port that will not get deleted so you can use it how many times you want.

I was referring in particular to the "SC3 Style" payloads, like Cassini and Huygens probe for example.
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Old 02-25-2019, 10:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred18 View Post
 Wait, 1 second: attachments, docking etc will keep working the normal way. I think that at the moment the Cargo bay has an attachment point and the mass of the orbiter gets updated if anything is attached to it.
If you want to recreate it, you just create a regular docking port that will not get deleted so you can use it how many times you want.

I was referring in particular to the "SC3 Style" payloads, like Cassini and Huygens probe for example.
Ok then. Sorry about the misunderstanding
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Old 02-25-2019, 03:53 PM   #18
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Don't be sorry, all the inputs are super welcome!!
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Old 02-25-2019, 05:10 PM   #19
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I wouldn't want a password system. I'd forget it sure.
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:34 PM   #20
fred18
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In the meantime:
- General Settings of the vehicle completed: Empty Mass, Size, PMI, Cross Sections and Gravity Gradient Damping.
- Touchdown Points settings completed: it is possible to define 2 sets of touchdown points. The first is the main set and there is also the possibility to just apply a default set of points which will anyway work in most of the cases. If the second set of points is enabled the user shall choose a Change Over animation, and the vessel switches from one set to the other when the animations gets to its status 1 and revert back. Typical use of this: landing gear-> When retracted there is set 1, when extended there is set2 or viceversa.

Tonight I am starting to work on the Airfoils. I hope that it's not too harsh, because the pre release is getting very close...

---------- Post added 26th Feb 2019 at 16:34 ---------- Previous post was 25th Feb 2019 at 21:22 ----------

Hi guys,

the airfoil part is proceeding much better than I thought. I hope in the end everything works as it should, but the fact that in the liftcoefffunc there is the possibility to pass a void* context parameters makes everything much much easier.

Having said so, I am currently adding 3 default models for lift coefficient functions: Deltaglider, Space Shuttle and Capsule, so users may have a starting point to work on. For DG and Shuttle models I will use the data provided by the code made available by martins, but for the capsule I have to look around for suggestions. I don't want to "steal" data made available from other addons (I am thinking for example about the Dragon of BrianJ whose code is available and which is a capsule).
So the question is:
Does anyone have a set of CL and CM function of AOA parameters relevant to a typical capsule (Apollo CM for example) that is willing to share for this project? of course everything will be credited!

Thanks in advance
Fred

Last edited by fred18; 02-26-2019 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:02 PM   #21
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Great news! Fred, will it support keyboard commands? You mention animations, so I guess it will.

You also mention 2 touchdown point sets.
Could this be extended to handle 2 (or more) configuration states ?
For example, redefining a docking port or attachment location ?

Thinking about the Chang'e lander where the rover goes on top, but then needs to be released on the ground.
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Old 02-26-2019, 05:52 PM   #22
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Will it be able to load a VC mesh. I think adding vc animations and mfd might be too much.
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Old 02-27-2019, 01:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 will it support keyboard commands? You mention animations, so I guess it will.
yes, for animations the users will have the possibility to choose almost for any key they want. Right now the key modifiers for animations are fixed (SHIFT + key to start the animation, CTRL+SHIFT+key to stop or start backward) but in a future version I could focus on this and let the modifiers also an option.

Here's a screenshot of the animations dialog with the key combo open:



The users may also choose for the animation not to have a particular key and a manual cycle for the animation. In this case the users will be able to actuate the animations manually with predefined keys (similar to the robotic arm system of SC3/GV)

The other keys set at the moment are the CTRL+G to grab objects when using robotic arms and I will implement the J key for jettison payloads with the procedure I mentioned a couple of posts earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 You also mention 2 touchdown point sets.
Could this be extended to handle 2 (or more) configuration states ?
For example, redefining a docking port or attachment location ?

Thinking about the Chang'e lander where the rover goes on top, but then needs to be released on the ground.
To be honest I haven't thought of a total reconfiguration of the vessel. but for the Chang' lander I think that a robotic arm implementation should work: the attachment point will move everywhere you set it up to.

I can think of a "vessel exchange option", that will load a brand new vessel on command. but I'm not so sure about this, I will look on how it could work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gattispilot View Post
 Will it be able to load a VC mesh. I think adding vc animations and mfd might be too much.
The idea I have at the moment is give the ability to load the mesh, to set up HUD, and all the MFDs that a user wants, together with all the relevant buttons (not animated, just points where the users will click). VC is the last point of the list at the moment. I think that giving the opportunity to make things like animations in the VC is a bit useless because the users would also have to implement what each animation/switch/button will do. It's something that needs to be coded, not possible through a general module.

---------- Post added 27th Feb 2019 at 02:23 ---------- Previous post was 26th Feb 2019 at 21:29 ----------

As anticipated airfoils are going smooth up to now.

here's a pic of the dialog. The graph can be shown or hidden and it is updated live as the points for the CL calculations are added or modified. The picture shows the Shuttle CLs, which one of the possible defaults configurations (DeltaGlider,Space Shuttle or Capsule).



As anticipated the capsule values have not been entered yet, and if someone has a valid set of CL and CM function of AOA to share they will be very welcome!

Cheers guys
Fred
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Old 02-27-2019, 10:35 AM   #24
4throck
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I can think of a "vessel exchange option", that will load a brand new vessel on command. but I'm not so sure about this, I will look on how it could work.

This would be good. I was thinking about connecting new (partial) configs to keys, but a global option is a start.

Also keep open the possibility using events besides keys: altitude, pressure, is landed, is docked
I know this adds complexity but it would be good to trigger a parachute at a certain altitude.

Anyway, keep up the good work, it's appreciated!
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Old 02-27-2019, 06:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 I can think of a "vessel exchange option", that will load a brand new vessel on command. but I'm not so sure about this, I will look on how it could work.

This would be good. I was thinking about connecting new (partial) configs to keys, but a global option is a start.

Also keep open the possibility using events besides keys: altitude, pressure, is landed, is docked
I know this adds complexity but it would be good to trigger a parachute at a certain altitude.

Anyway, keep up the good work, it's appreciated!
I was thinking that I could add a section called "Events" where users can define a series of events that will be triggered when a set of conditions are met or when a key is pressed. The "easiest" thing would be a complete vessel reconfiguration.

Anyway this will not be there in the very first release: first and most important thing everything must work as it should, without bugs or issues, so the first release must have a vessel builder that works properly.

I can say that in order to test airfoils I started to reproduce the DeltaGlider with VesselBuilder and it took me 10 minutes to have it flying and working. It looks really really promising.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:53 AM   #26
4throck
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Yes, 'Events' will do, what you describe is what I had in mind.
For a test latter on, think about the Soyuz and how it separates into 3 vessels, and how propulsion changes with that.

But get it working first
Undefined scope is the biggest problem with any development, so focus just on the core.
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Old 02-28-2019, 06:16 PM   #27
fred18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 Yes, 'Events' will do, what you describe is what I had in mind.
For a test latter on, think about the Soyuz and how it separates into 3 vessels, and how propulsion changes with that.

But get it working first
Undefined scope is the biggest problem with any development, so focus just on the core.
I made a quick test for curiosity and the overall reconfiguration of the vessel works fine. What troubles me relevant to partial reconfiguration is that many sections are interrelated: think about meshes and animations or exhausts and thrusters... But it is also true that I should warn developers about this but then it will be their responsability not to mess up with interrelated sections... so maybe I should not make it "my" issue.
About events what comes to my mind is something like:
possible events:
- spawning of a child
- triggering of an animation
- firing of thrusters
- vessel partial or total reconfiguration
possible triggers:
- keypress
- altitude threshold (from above or from below)
- fuel tank level threshold (this is a longshot, thinking of a possible multistage vessel)
- velocity threshold (from above or from below)
- time (mission time? simulation time? mjd? that's something to think about)

all this is feasible without crazy work, because as anticipated, I'm working hard on the code to make it the more versatile possible. Speaking of the code I will probably rewrite the animations part because from a first review it seems that for that part I lost the Keep It Simple approach, and I have ideas to make it much much easier to code.

Speaking of something like the Soyuz I think that this module will bring also some needings of a new way of thinking addons: maybe the optimum would be to make the soyuz with three vessels docked together. We are all very used to Vinka's style, but I think that now there could be many new approaches to explore.

In the meantime the Control Surfaces are perfectly working, so in my list only lights, cameras and Virtual Cockpit are missing then the module pre-release will be ready.

I reiterate here my requests to anyone listening:
1) Is there anybody interested in making a video tutorial on the usage of the module? please let me know because it could be very useful
2) Does anybody have a set of CL and CM function of AOA for a typical capsule he is wishing to share to set it as Capsule default parameter?

Cheers

Fred
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:03 PM   #28
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I have one that I used for the Shenzhou9, but I can't remember where I got it. You're free to use it.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:38 PM   #29
4throck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred18 View Post
 maybe the optimum would be to make the soyuz with three vessels docked together.
Sure. We can fly the Soyuz return module and change the propulsion configuration once the service module separates.


If I may suggest, in the far, far future, try to add solar radiation calculation as a base for 2 things - solar panels and temperature.
This is zero priority but might add some "playability" to vessels. Something like if temperature and power are off limits, the vessel stops being controllable.
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:14 PM   #30
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So, I rewrote the animations part and it seems much better now. Before I had something like 4 classes and an infnite number of methods and parameters, now I have one class and some 20 methods. The KISS approach has been correctly restored

now I'm noting down some issues and things that can be a bit better while testing. I'll also have to add the variable drag elements, I don't know if I'll add a specific section or if I'll include them in the control surfaces. But anyway it's not a big issue to add.

I have to say that I'm intrigued by the "events" section from the idea of 4throck... if the testing keeps going smoothly I will try to add an experimental events section soon...
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