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Old 07-18-2017, 11:29 PM   #31
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Does this mean That NASA, is using Orbiter to fake the moon landing and the ISS ?
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:51 AM   #32
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I'm having some trouble believing that there are people who actually believe the Earth is flat. I thought that was like a big internet joke or something. You mean these people are for real?! I mean, there are always a handful of crackpots who believe any given nonsense, but this flat earth thing is bigger than that?
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:27 AM   #33
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 I'm having some trouble believing that there are people who actually believe the Earth is flat. I thought that was like a big internet joke or something. You mean these people are for real?! I mean, there are always a handful of crackpots who believe any given nonsense, but this flat earth thing is bigger than that?
Why not? There are so many biblical creationists too, after all. The borderline between internet joke and religious following is ultra-thin these days, as it seems.
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:01 AM   #34
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 I'm having some trouble believing that there are people who actually believe the Earth is flat. I thought that was like a big internet joke or something. You mean these people are for real?! I mean, there are always a handful of crackpots who believe any given nonsense, but this flat earth thing is bigger than that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
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Old 07-19-2017, 06:46 AM   #35
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Looking at society now it seems that a large number of people are very suggestable and will buy into almost anything and have little concept of reality,also the bible dous not state that the earth is a flat plane.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:11 AM   #36
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 also the bible dous not state that the earth is a flat plane.
My statement was just to underline that flat-earthers behave like religious people. Don't get me wrong: I don't mind religious people, I just stopped arguing with them about their believes (it would also be basement material ).
Therefore it is no surprise to me that there are many of them, and also that what first looks like an internet joke is actually serious business for them.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:43 AM   #37
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I find it a worse problem when people say they believe in Science!
So gravity works because they believe in Newton ?
Now maths are a matter of faith ? Cool!

Really a confusion of concepts that's more and more common.

Returning to the North-South runways, would that affect Aircraft Carriers?
On that case have a moving runway, so I guess they would be more "affected".
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:47 AM   #38
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Many years ago I got a PPL(H) , and terrorised the South coast of UK from Goodwood Airfield.
Must have approached and landed N/S many a time. Didn't notice any difference from other directions. Except for the wind of course...

Edit: found the one I spent most of my training in, still a smart looking machine:
https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1372311/

N.

Last edited by Notebook; 07-19-2017 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:16 AM   #39
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My interpretation of the OP (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that he doesn't doubt that you can land on a N-S runway, but that physics can't explain how this is possible on the surface of a spinning planet.

Since orbiter claims to be physically accurate and allows you to land on a N-S runway, this would falsify his premise. So now he is trying to find out where I cheated. Good luck .
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:00 AM   #40
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 My interpretation of the OP (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that he doesn't doubt that you can land on a N-S runway, but that physics can't explain how this is possible on the surface of a spinning planet.

Since orbiter claims to be physically accurate and allows you to land on a N-S runway, this would falsify his premise. So now he is trying to find out where I cheated. Good luck .
I think we all jumped on him being a flat-earther a bit too soon. The agenda is there, yes, but it is perhaps a bit unfair to flat out assume that he is one (no pun intended). It could well be that he wants to convince others that their theory is false with the help of Orbiter.

Unfortunately, that would be naive, too. How does that old saying go? "Never argue with stupid people. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:39 PM   #41
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  I think we all jumped on him being a flat-earther a bit too soon. The agenda is there, yes, but it is perhaps a bit unfair to flat out assume that he is one (no pun intended). It could well be that he wants to convince others that their theory is false with the help of Orbiter.

Unfortunately, that would be naive, too. How does that old saying go? "Never argue with stupid people. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
My first thought was that he was trying to debunk flat-earthers. I didn't consider that anyone would be so detached from reality that they would try to make a bunch of space-simmers help prove the Earth is flat.

I still have no first hand evidence of his intentions, and IMHO it doesn't matter. The answers would be identical in any case.

As for old sayings I personally like: "Never interrupt your opponent while he's demonstrating the flaws in his own arguments".
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Old 07-19-2017, 02:54 PM   #42
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 I'm having some trouble believing that there are people who actually believe the Earth is flat. I thought that was like a big internet joke or something. You mean these people are for real?! I mean, there are always a handful of crackpots who believe any given nonsense, but this flat earth thing is bigger than that?
Any time I capture and post a video of a Falcon 9 landing, I'm immediately attacked by flat earthers on youtube. Hordes of them, in some cases. One even went so far as to make a "response video" to one of my landing videos, calling it an "obvious fake." On my latest Falcon 9 landing video, one crazy loon said she had reported my video to YouTube to try to get it taken down as a "false report." I'm not sure how a rocket vertically landing directly contradicts the claim of a flat earth on its own, but nevertheless they seem to be automatically threatened by anything that demonstrates a high level of technological advancement in spaceflight simply because they insist that "all rocket launches from Florida secretly splash in the Atlantic ocean after launch."

Keep in mind that I'm not posting my launch and landing videos as a response to anyone, I'm just doing it to share the event. This is just what these people feel compelled to do on their own. Anything that contradicts their beliefs must be discredited or censored in order to minimize their cognitive dissonance. These people are a special kind of radical that you don't typically see in most religions; their beliefs are so incredibly wrong that a large amount of evidence contradicting them can be generated by the average person without an extraordinary amount of effort. In fact, evidence is frequently generated without even deliberately trying. This requires them to attack and besmirch anyone who generated that evidence, whether deliberately to debunk them or not.

I met a couple from out of town at one of the latest Falcon 9 launches and they left a nice comment on the video that I uploaded of the launch/landing, but were actually attacked by flat earthers who insisted they were fake posters that I had set up to make it seem as if additional people witnessed the event in person. Thanks to the wonders of Google's broken YouTube comment system, although I can remove the comments from public view on YouTube, I cannot remove them from the "Google+ enhanced" comment threads that are automatically generated, so the couple still saw the nastiness no matter what I did. They probably weren't expecting to be attacked by flat earthers simply for commenting on my video, and I haven't heard back from them since.

It's unfortunate, but I'm now embarrassed any time I tell anyone at a launch about my YouTube channel. They see my telescope tracking setup and the video that I'm capturing and they want to know if I'm posting it online so that they can watch it later when they get home, but I now feel compelled to warn them that they should ignore the comments in the video. I've been told I should just disable comments altogether, but that feels like an admission that I'm defeated or hiding something. It's the same move I see hoaxers pull when they're exposed on YouTube, so I refuse to do it. Flat earthers are a huge headache and Google's broken comment system on YouTube makes it impossible to properly manage them.

Last edited by Messierhunter; 07-19-2017 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:14 PM   #43
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Well, "youtube comments" is already a synonym for "troll forum" in my eyes, so I'm not surprised. If anything, the amount of trolls you get there is a better guess at the popularity of your videos than the hit counter alone.

If I look at youtube videos, I completely ignore the comments, so IMHO you don't admit defeat by closing comments. Everybody reading them should know that 99% is crap, anyway.

And to be honest: whether or not fundamentalistic terrorists of the flat-earth religion think you are hiding something should really be the least of your concerns. Those s will ALWAYS find something to hate on, no matter what you do.
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:47 PM   #44
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Here's a south/north approach at Brighton Beach on the moon, with no atmosphere to carry you along..
As you can see the approach angle is offset until the last moment when straightening up for landing, where the drift (relative moon/craft speed), as mentioned, is clearly visible.

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Old 07-19-2017, 11:08 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Face View Post
 Well, "youtube comments" is already a synonym for "troll forum" in my eyes, so I'm not surprised. If anything, the amount of trolls you get there is a better guess at the popularity of your videos than the hit counter alone.

If I look at youtube videos, I completely ignore the comments, so IMHO you don't admit defeat by closing comments. Everybody reading them should know that 99% is crap, anyway.

And to be honest: whether or not fundamentalistic terrorists of the flat-earth religion think you are hiding something should really be the least of your concerns. Those s will ALWAYS find something to hate on, no matter what you do.
I rarely see a concerted flat earth troll campaign of the type Messierhunter describes. That sounds like something different.

I do notice it in news comments like on Yahoo news and the like; every space related article immediately draws religious nuts, anti-science types, and conspiracy theorists like flies to a garbage can.
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