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Old 04-06-2018, 04:48 PM   #16
Face
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marijn View Post
 So I don't think we can expect the implementation of thermals in Orbiter anytime soon.
I think it would be good enough to implement the effects directly into the vessel class. It is not necessary to have a generalized simulation of thermals in Orbiter. Ideas for implementation:
  1. Detect sun angle on surface as well as texture brightness of surface directly beneath the vessel's position.
  2. Use both to calculate thermal effect from a look-up table.
  3. Get Orbiter's wind vector as well as terrain slope directly beneath the vessel's position.
  4. Use both to calculate a slope wind effect from a look-up table.
  5. Add both to get an upwind/downwind effect.
Of course that's not the perfect real-world simulation, but it could be enough to get the idea and have some fun.
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Old 04-08-2018, 01:31 AM   #17
zachary77
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Originally Posted by Marijn View Post
 Actually a fellow club member of mine owns a ASW27 which was recently modified so it has a jet engine inside the fuselage. Like this one: ASW27-J powered by PSR T01 KS | Hoya Weser Germany - YouTube

I think I have a 3d model of this glider somewhere. You can have it if you are interested.
Yes please. My modelling skills leave much to be desired. Id really like the model, thanks.
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Old 04-08-2018, 12:30 PM   #18
zachary77
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Smile Alpha V0.1 Released!

I'm happy to announce that the very first Alpha, V0.1, has been released. The zip is attached, please do report bugs!

Release Notes

Current features:
  • Jet engine for launch and climb (hover thrust)
  • Ballast dump (mains)
  • Auto trim with [K]
  • Jet only works in atmo

To-do list:
  • Spoilers (from Face)
  • Variometer (Ripley)
  • Better mesh
  • D3D9 features for said mesh
  • Better jet simulation

Wishlist (might or might not, if I can figure it out):
Thermals, other launch methods and animations

Do turn off auto trim for takeoff/landing, and have fun!

zachary77
Attached Files
File Type: zip Glider V0.10.zip (215.2 KB, 6 views)

Last edited by zachary77; 04-08-2018 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Added content
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:18 PM   #19
zachary77
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The exhaust flame shouldn’t be there. It’ll be fixed in the next release.
Also, thanks to Hlynkacg for his excellent tutorial that I used extensively.
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Old 04-09-2018, 12:07 PM   #20
Marijn
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Originally Posted by zachary77 View Post
 Yes please. My modelling skills leave much to be desired. Id really like the model, thanks.
Ok. I have to look for it on some old disks. One moment..
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:15 AM   #21
BrianJ
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Hi,
thanks for this interesting project
I wondered if it would be possible to use TetherMFD to tow the glider up.
Turns out you can, but it has a few "quirks".
I tried using the DG but it was a bit overpowered for this purpose.
So I resurrected the legendary Kev33's Cessna172 (had to make a new .dll compatible with Orbiter2016, but Kev33 left us the code for this one - thanks Kev :-)
Click image for larger version

Name:	glider_cessna_tow0.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	232.6 KB
ID:	15702
Click image for larger version

Name:	glider_cessna_tow1.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	95.8 KB
ID:	15703
N.B. You need to fly both aircraft into turns.
If things get unstable and "jerky" on the tether, its easy to get flung into hyperspace->CTD.
Exiting scenario while TetherMFD in use crashes Orbiter after saving "current_state".scn.

If you want to give it a go, you can use the attached .zip along with TetherMFD , Kev33's Cessna172 ver3, and the Glider v0.10

Attached .zip has new glider_tow.cfg (added attachment point), cessna172.dll, cessna172.cfg, scenario "Cessna_Glider_tow".
Scenario - Glider attach point is tethered to Cessna, ready to take off.

Thanks again,
BrianJ
Attached Files
File Type: zip cessna_glider_tow_180410.zip (64.0 KB, 3 views)
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:01 AM   #22
zachary77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianJ View Post
 Hi,
thanks for this interesting project
I wondered if it would be possible to use TetherMFD to tow the glider up.
Turns out you can, but it has a few "quirks".
I tried using the DG but it was a bit overpowered for this purpose.
So I resurrected the legendary Kev33's Cessna172 (had to make a new .dll compatible with Orbiter2016, but Kev33 left us the code for this one - thanks Kev :-)
Attachment 15702
Attachment 15703
N.B. You need to fly both aircraft into turns.
If things get unstable and "jerky" on the tether, its easy to get flung into hyperspace->CTD.
Exiting scenario while TetherMFD in use crashes Orbiter after saving "current_state".scn.

If you want to give it a go, you can use the attached .zip along with TetherMFD , Kev33's Cessna172 ver3, and the Glider v0.10

Attached .zip has new glider_tow.cfg (added attachment point), cessna172.dll, cessna172.cfg, scenario "Cessna_Glider_tow".
Scenario - Glider attach point is tethered to Cessna, ready to take off.

Thanks again,
BrianJ
Wow, thanks! Ill definitely try it and report back. Much appreciated, BrianJ!

---------- Post added at 09:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 AM ----------

Well, just tried it and it works beautifully!

Really cool. I'm officially endorsing this as another launch method.
Thanks BrianJ!
P.S. No CTD for me when saving.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:40 AM   #23
Urwumpe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face View Post
 I think it would be good enough to implement the effects directly into the vessel class. It is not necessary to have a generalized simulation of thermals in Orbiter. Ideas for implementation:
  1. Detect sun angle on surface as well as texture brightness of surface directly beneath the vessel's position.
  2. Use both to calculate thermal effect from a look-up table.
  3. Get Orbiter's wind vector as well as terrain slope directly beneath the vessel's position.
  4. Use both to calculate a slope wind effect from a look-up table.
  5. Add both to get an upwind/downwind effect.
Of course that's not the perfect real-world simulation, but it could be enough to get the idea and have some fun.
Another idea would be using a "weather feature map" in in the planet.dll to produce procedural wind vectors. Would not be realistic, but could be easily extended by adding new "weather features" to the map. The idea would be not using global coverage then, but produce local map data for special regions around bases. Of course, theoretically, there could also be a weather feature generator using the terrain data of Orbiter and a simplified flow solver for a limited region (eg, the Alps)

Some sort of like your wind effect and look-up table works, but not being limited to vessels supporting it. Theoretically you could then also let it apply to monstrous storms and turbulences in Saturns atmosphere as well. Also it could make some older Mars related add-ons more interesting.

Of course, it would be far more interesting if we could also add single clouds to Earths atmosphere to show where thermals are...
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:21 AM   #24
Thorsten
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(Disclaimer: I wrote the weather code for Flightgear including the thermal soaring part)

Thermals are so fine-grained, they won't show on any fluid dynamics simulation you could realistically run. Best pick random spots (ideally based on underlying terrain - no thermals over ice and water), check whether your craft is inside such a region of interest and run a thermal then (if you have a 3d model, you can at the same time place a cap cloud).

If anyone needs a parametric lift distribution for a thermal (it's based on my own and some other pilot's experiences in the ASK-13 glider), I can dig up the pointer to the code.

The interaction of thermals and rough mountain terrain is a bitch to model - generally you need to know plenty of non-local things like the elevation distribution of the terrain in the vicinity to be halfway realistic (at least based on cap clouds) - the reason is that the cloudbase always moves somewhat with the terrain elevation, but isolated spots and canyons don't really affect it.

Ridge lift is also a non-local affair which depends on the shape of the terrain both upwind and downwind - again, I can probably find the reference for a realistic function if anyone is interested.
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Old 04-11-2018, 12:07 PM   #25
zachary77
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Alright, progress update:
Working on not needing to turn trim on/off (similar to Airbus flare law). The good news is that below 100 m, the trim shuts off and vice versa. However, it’s unstable during the transition from manual to auto. Also, I’m running into issues with the flaps (Face’s idea). While they extend and retract alright (both positive and negative, 8 stages in all!), they do so much too quickly. I’ve tried setting the delay parameter to 30 s in accordance with CreateControlSurface3, but it seems to have no effect. The flaps still take <1/2 seconds to extend/retract 1 stage (I can see that in the debug string). Any suggestions?

Last edited by zachary77; 04-11-2018 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Corrected details
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Old 04-11-2018, 12:39 PM   #26
Urwumpe
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I think this delay is just if you are using keyboard control of the control surfaces.

Better implement the flap extension animation yourself as state machine.
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:56 PM   #27
Marijn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zachary77 View Post
 Id really like the model, thanks.
Found it. How can I sent it to you? It's a zip.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:15 AM   #28
zachary77
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Originally Posted by Marijn View Post
 Found it. How can I sent it to you? It's a zip.
I guess you could attach it to a post, or if youd prefer, PM me.

Much appreciated,
zachary77

---------- Post added at 03:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 I think this delay is just if you are using keyboard control of the control surfaces.

Better implement the flap extension animation yourself as state machine.
Umm, what is a state machine?
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:25 AM   #29
Thorsten
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Umm, what is a state machine?

I guess calling it a kind of coding philosophy describes it best...

Something that has internal states, can receive inputs to change the states and does outputs dependent on input and internal state.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:12 AM   #30
Marijn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zachary77 View Post
 I guess you could attach it to a post, or if you’d prefer, PM me.
I'd prefer a PM, but I don't see a way to attach a file.. Am I overlooking something?
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