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Old 03-16-2018, 03:27 PM   #181
n122vu
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Sweet. I'll be picking one up shortly to run my LiveATC feed, which currently sits on my older gaming desktop under Windows 10. Need to check if my wireless router supports PoE.

Just bought a Model B back in December to replace the one in my Stratux that died 2 years ago (because I damaged the microSD slot). Not sure the 3B+ offers anything that would benefit in that application, but I may buy one for a backup.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:28 PM   #182
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I suppose its inevitable, the designers will always want to improve their products.

I forgot the BBC Bit. Guess that's more suited.
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Old 03-16-2018, 08:55 PM   #183
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I feel so, yes. Its a small evolution to the previous model, the older models will have a hard time finding a good niche there to keep on getting sold.
Well, people that rely on them for production solutions and don't need the new features wouldn't be too mad if the older models stuck around for a bit longer, but eventually they'll vanish, that's true.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:57 PM   #184
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How much would any production solutions have to change though? How different is the new RasPi from the old?
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:05 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 I feel so, yes. Its a small evolution to the previous model, the older models will have a hard time finding a good niche there to keep on getting sold.
Industry is starting to use them a lost more. The Pi 2 on-wards fix most of the issues and are a pretty good board.

We have used a com module (V3) in one of our products.
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:13 AM   #186
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How much would any production solutions have to change though? How different is the new RasPi from the old?
That's just the problem. You don't know.
We potentially deploy our Pis in temperatures between -20 to +50 degree C. The Pi isn't rated for that, or for any industrial application, which is not so much a problem. It just means you have to evaluate the device for your conditions and application and decide whether or not to use it, and then bear the responsibility yourself. No problem.
But every new component added to it invalidates conditional evaluations. Does the new wireless chip (which we don't need) survive these temperatures as well as the rest of the device? Will the rest of the device continue to function if it fails? Do the new components introduce instability in the long run that wasn't caught during testing? We don't know. So we have to test it anew, and after that introduce it into production slowly to see how it performs outside of the test environment long term.

Hardware updates in production solutions with conditional requirements are kind of a touchy thing. So if you don't have any benefit from the new components, it's better to just keep using the older model. The less there is on it, the less can break.

Last edited by jedidia; 03-17-2018 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:13 AM   #187
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Must admit I hadn't thought much of the Pi in industrial environment. Always thought of it as educational/hobbyist and a bit of prototype development.
Good for it, if its getting more work!

N.
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Old 03-17-2018, 12:29 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by jedidia View Post
 That's just the problem. You don't know.
We potentially deploy our Pis in temperatures between -20 to +50 degree C. The Pi isn't rated for that, or for any industrial application, which is not so much a problem. It just means you have to evaluate the device for your conditions and application and decide whether or not to use it, and then bear the responsibility yourself. No problem.
But every new component added to it invalidates conditional evaluations. Does the new wireless chip (which we don't need) survive these temperatures as well as the rest of the device? Will the rest of the device continue to function if it fails? Do the new components introduce instability in the long run that wasn't caught during testing? We don't know. So we have to test it anew, and after that introduce it into production slowly to see how it performs outside of the test environment long term.

Hardware updates in production solutions with conditional requirements are kind of a touchy thing. So if you don't have any benefit from the new components, it's better to just keep using the older model. The less there is on it, the less can break.
I'd have to check the exact values, but we have gotten our Pi based project rated between at least 0 and 50C. I think it might be lower than zero, but I'd need to pull up the exact docs.

It helped that it was in a sealed case though and had a nice power supply.

The only test that we had issues with was a vibration test and that was because the mount inside broke (The sub chassis connection to the main case). This was on a Pi2 as well.
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Old 03-17-2018, 07:45 PM   #189
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I'd have to check the exact values, but we have gotten our Pi based project rated between at least 0 and 50C.
It is astonishingly resilient for such a cheap device. The range mentioned above is no problem, and we tested the extremes between -40 and +80 degree C. The things worked for two weeks without a hitch, and we finished the test.

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The only test that we had issues with was a vibration test
Yeah, luckily vibrations aren't a thing we have to contend with.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:50 AM   #190
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The team behind the pocket-sized Raspberry Pi computer is opening its first high street store in the city where it was invented.
In a move bucking the online retail trend, the company will open an "experimental space" in Cambridge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-47143411
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:06 AM   #191
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The team behind the pocket-sized Raspberry Pi computer is opening its first high street store in the city where it was invented.
In a move bucking the online retail trend, the company will open an "experimental space" in Cambridge.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-47143411
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:36 AM   #192
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Speaking of temperature ratings, by now i got quite a few of them doing stuff like being cameras or being an exit node for a network of sensors in unheated places.
No problems were observed during the winter, with temps as low as -30*C (CPUs on Pis never got below zero, however).
So it's not like it's going to die once water freezes over, especially for hobby uses.


Getting back on the broader topic, the whole stack of 10 RPi zeros had been chipped apart and used in a variety of projects.
The most persistent one is a time lapse/network camera, of which i made a bunch, and which are placed in many locations within 2000 km radius.

Another one is an IoT gateway, since i like making all kinds of smart home thingies but don't feel like it's a good idea to connect them to the internet. So they are all wired together, and there is also a Pi zero in there somewhere with a wifi dongle that does the encryption and communications with the outside world.


These projects revealed more flaws of the Pi, more precisely that it's flakey.
The cameras tended to lock up every week or so, for reasons i never figured out (in all climates).
There is a watchdog timer in the CPU, but it does not work all that well.
In the end i had to add timed reboots to them, and an external reboot timer for the ones that would need a plane trip to access.
Annoying.

The other thing is that the CPU does not do real time tasks all that well - i wrote a kernel module to handle the wired bus i mentioned, and it never quite worked right. Best i can tell is that the timers onboard got some randomness to them, or there is some kind of not-controllable frequency changing going on.
Annoying.

In the end, it's not as in-control as you can get on a proper microcontroller, which is largely offset by it's ability to do microcontroller level things while carrying a full scale Linux.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:45 AM   #193
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Well, there is no such thing like a true Real-time Linux, so this should not be too surprising. Even with the kernel compiled as PREEMPT_RT, it should be rather unresponsive compared to what different kernels achieve.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:10 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Notebook View Post
 Looking forward to it, haven't been this excited since I bought my SYM...
I remember programming such a thing when I was a kid, creating some sort of ticker. When it was bedtime, it had to be switched off, clearing all memory.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:33 AM   #195
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Indeed, though the SYM did have a cassette interface. Other popular one was the NASCOM:

http://www.nascomhomepage.com/#Overview
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