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Old 10-23-2016, 02:56 AM   #181
Thunder Chicken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickSawyer View Post
 xkcd What If? levels fast.
What fraction of c would Schiaparelli have needed to attain for the gravity waves of the impact on Mars to be felt on Earth? Maybe I should submit this to Randall. "But we're not done, because this probe goes to 11."
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:00 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Scav View Post
 . o O ( What's the last thing that goes through a lander's mind when it hits the windshield of a Mars . . . )
Its crushable understructure

(So much for "landing attenuation".)

---------- Post added at 10:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 AM ----------

I was looking at the impact site picture over the weekend and I thought about the Whale in the Hitch Hiker's Guide...

"What's this big thing rushing towards me... so big and round - I think I'll call it...Ground. I wonder if it'll be friends with me..."

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Old 10-24-2016, 10:12 AM   #183
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A friend yesterday misspelled "Schiaparelli" as "Schrapnelli". He did not understand why I was laughing so hard.
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:53 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Andy44 View Post
 "Photos show European Mars probe crashed, may have exploded"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/european-...170708902.html
The crater observed by MRO due to the Schiaparelli impact reminded me of something.

Surprising MRO images had shown ice at the bottom of recent meteor impact craters on Mars. This was due to ice being revealed that was already existing in the subsurface on Mars. What was surprising was this ice was close to the surface even at midlatitudes:

NEW IMAGES REVEAL “PURE” WATER ICE AT LOW LATITUDES ON MARS
Article Updated: 24 Dec , 2015
by Nancy Atkinson
Quote:
...
The discovery of these “white” impact craters began in August 2008, the orbiter’s Context camera team examined their images for any dark spots or other changes that weren’t visible in earlier images of the same area. Meteorites usually leave dark marks when they crash into dust-covered Mars terrain.
The HiRISE team followed up in September 2008 by taking high-resolution images of the dark spots.

“We saw something very unusual when we followed up on the first of these impact craters,” Byrne said, “and that was this bright blue material poking up from the bottom of the crater. It looked a lot like water ice. And sure enough, when we started monitoring this material, it faded away like you’d expect water ice to fade, because water ice is unstable on Mars’ surface and turns directly into water vapor in the atmosphere.”

A few days later in September 2008, the orbiter’s “CRISM” team used their Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars and got the spectral signature of water ice exposed in one of the impact craters, further clinching the discovery.
“All of this had to happen very quickly because 200 days after we first saw the ice, it was gone, it was the color of dirt,” Byrne said. “If we had taken HiRISE images just a few months later, we wouldn’t have noticed anything unusual. This discovery would have just passed us by.”

http://www.universetoday.com/41337/n...tudes-on-mars/

This was at midlatitudes around 40 degrees North. But other observations suggest there might even be subsurface ice even at near equatorial latitudes dependent on depth beneath the surface.

So perhaps the Schiaparelli crash unearthed some near surface ice there. We should do spectrographic imaging at the crash site. Could we even have one of the current rovers operating on Mars, Opportunity and Curiosity, visit the crash site?


Bob Clark

Last edited by RGClark; 10-24-2016 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:09 PM   #185
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I don't think Opportunity is too far away for a visit?
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:30 PM   #186
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According to this post Opportunity is probably 54 km away, so no chance:

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily...pdate-ctx.html
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:42 PM   #187
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You mean it's not like in the movies where everything and everyone who ever lands on Mars is close enough to just stroll over to each other even though it's an entire planet? (Talking to you, Val Kilmer's Red Planet!).
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:43 PM   #188
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54km too far. And depressing, because we know Oppy won't last 54 more km.

So, theoretically, how close would Op have to be for the mission planners to have considered a detour? 1km? 2km 5km?
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:03 PM   #189
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Couple dozen meters. Otherwise, the ice will have sublimated before the rover arrives.
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:04 PM   #190
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Considering Opportunity's limitations and current objectives (risky decent in to a crater), landing really close (less than a 1km) to the rover would have been needed for a detour. And a set of really good scientific reasons (that the rover could accomplish) to do it. And the funding.

In the rovers current state a 1000m drive would take upwards of a 100 days then the drive back to continue its current objectives, plus 50 days at the crash site. That would take most of the summer, Opportunity may not survive another winter.

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Old 10-24-2016, 03:15 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Keatah View Post
 54km too far. And depressing, because we know Oppy won't last 54 more km.

So, theoretically, how close would Op have to be for the mission planners to have considered a detour? 1km? 2km 5km?
Don't forget, Opportunity was designed to last for 90 days. Despite some early injuries it has fulfilled the mission, and is now a little old, slightly worn, forgotten by some these days, but still showing some of the newer models how to last. (Kind of like the Michael Collins of Mars.)
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Old 10-24-2016, 03:46 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by MaverickSawyer View Post
 Couple dozen meters. Otherwise, the ice will have sublimated before the rover arrives.
That would depend on how thick was the subsurface ice at this near equatorial site. According to the article I linked to, it took 200 days for it to sublimate at the mid latitude site.
The Opportunity rover has a top speed of 5 cm per second, 0.18 km/hr, though it commonly travels at 1/5th that speed because it constantly checks the terrain ahead before proceeding.

So at top speed it would take 12.5 days to get there. Perhaps MRO could do imaging of the area in order to plot a route with few obstacles so Opportunity could travel near top speed.

Bob Clark
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Old 10-24-2016, 05:58 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGClark View Post
 That would depend on how thick was the subsurface ice at this near equatorial site. According to the article I linked to, it took 200 days for it to sublimate at the mid latitude site.
The Opportunity rover has a top speed of 5 cm per second, 0.18 km/hr, though it commonly travels at 1/5th that speed because it constantly checks the terrain ahead before proceeding.

So at top speed it would take 12.5 days to get there. Perhaps MRO could do imaging of the area in order to plot a route with few obstacles so Opportunity could travel near top speed.

Bob Clark
In the article you quoted says Opportunity has travelled 40,25 km since 2004. I dont think its realistic to double that distance in 13 days?
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:02 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Evil_Onyx View Post
 ..Opportunity may not survive another winter.
Is there evidence saying the mission is coming to an end?
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:48 PM   #195
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No, so long as there is funding and the rover can still communicate it will keep on plodding on.
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