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Default Ariane 6 Updates
by Notebook 07-10-2013, 06:23 AM

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The basic design for Europe's next generation rocket, the Ariane 6, has been selected.
It will be powered by two solid-fuelled lower stages and incorporate the liquid-fuelled upper-stage currently being developed as an upgrade for the existing Ariane 5 vehicle.
The concept was chosen following six months of trade-off studies.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23241158

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Last edited by Nicholas Kang; 12-07-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:48 AM   #2
Alfastar
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"The development cost to first launch is likely to be in the region of about 3bn euros"

Well, need we serious a Araine 6? I don't think so. And the development costs make it for my a nono-project in my eyes for now.
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Old 07-10-2013, 07:38 AM   #3
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Well, all as expected.

Remember that 3 billion means in the end 30 million Euro pure R&D costs in the launch costs for the expected 100 launches. Even if you let the tax payer pay this, it is pretty expensive relative to the performance of the rocket.

But it is good that it also means that the Ariane 5 ME is not dead at all. Possibly we will even see a Ariane 5 ME+. It is cheaper to make the Ariane 5 ME more cost efficient, than to make the Ariane 6 perform better.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:34 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Well, all as expected.

Remember that 3 billion means in the end 30 million Euro pure R&D costs in the launch costs for the expected 100 launches. Even if you let the tax payer pay this, it is pretty expensive relative to the performance of the rocket.

But it is good that it also means that the Ariane 5 ME is not dead at all. Possibly we will even see a Ariane 5 ME+. It is cheaper to make the Ariane 5 ME more cost efficient, than to make the Ariane 6 perform better.
I agree with you point. I surely bet a Ariane-5 ME development cost are less then the development cost of a Ariane 6. Simple because you need develop much if you build a total new rocket.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:43 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Alfastar View Post
 I agree with you point. I surely bet a Ariane-5 ME development cost are less then the development cost of a Ariane 6. Simple because you need develop much if you build a total new rocket.
Well, remember that the first stage development of the Ariane 6 would have good chances to become booster of an improved Ariane 5. The money would be far from lost, also of course, the French ICBMs will thank you as european tax payer as well (though not more than what the French tax payer paid into the ESA budget - and that will be less in the future, if the French economy stagnates much longer).
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:40 PM   #6
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Default Ariane 6 Vulcain engine

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30 October 2017
A Vulcain rocket engine recently arrived in Germany ahead of its first test firing in December to demonstrate new capabilities and technologies developed for Ariane 6.
http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Sp...r_first_firing
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:23 PM   #7
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So they named it "Vulcain 2.1", which makes sense, as it seems to be a minor Vulcain 2 improvement.

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There are several design updates but the main visible difference between the model powering today’s Ariane 5 and the Vulcain 2.1 for Ariane 6 is the nozzle.

A more robust nozzle was formed by laser-welding two sheets of metal while creating cooling channels inside.

Structural reinforcements are 3D printed which increases production rate and lowers manufacturing costs.

There are two main changes in how the engine works.

Expensive liquid helium is no longer needed because heated oxygen in the exhaust lines now pressurises the oxygen tank.

The new engine is ignited from the ground via the bottom of the nozzle instead of by pyrotechnic devices inside the motor, reducing the cost and weight.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:32 PM   #8
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Expensive liquid helium is no longer needed because heated oxygen in the exhaust lines now pressurises the oxygen tank.

I'm guessing its gaseous Oxygen, generated through a heat-exchanger?

Also, the ignition method. Isn't the idea that you ignite the propellants in the combustion chamber?
Are they going to ignite the liquids in the nozzle, and hope it burns back into the chamber?

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Last edited by Notebook; 10-30-2017 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:40 PM   #9
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Are they going to ignite the liquids in the nozzle, and hope it burns back into the chamber?
It seems to me that the SSME (RS-25) always worked like that. During Shuttle launches, you have those "spark igniters" that fire right under the nozzles.
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:25 PM   #10
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I thought they were to burn off any stray Hydrogen?

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Old 10-30-2017, 04:02 PM   #11
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The "spark igniters" for SSME are just to burn off stray hydrogen, like Notebook said.

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The new engine is ignited from the ground via the bottom of the nozzle instead of by pyrotechnic devices inside the motor, reducing the cost and weight.
This can still mean its ignition takes place in the combustion chamber (I imagine a long match peeking waaay inside )
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_Molson View Post
 It seems to me that the SSME (RS-25) always worked like that. During Shuttle launches, you have those "spark igniters" that fire right under the nozzles.
Those are ROFI pyrotechnics are just for burning up any gaseous hydrogen that leaves the engine during ignition or shutdown. Remember, hydrogen climbs up rapidly under normal atmosphere, without ROFI, enough could accumulate under the nozzle bell to damage the engine during an unwanted ignition. Consider this precaution - most other hydrogen fueled rocket engines don't use them (But the RS-68 does as well)

The SSME is ignited by three augmented spark igniters (ASI), which are pretty much small pressure fed combustion chambers, ignited by a pair of large spark plugs. H2 and O2 are mixed in them and ignited by electrical charges to create a flame strong enough to reliable start combustion in the main chamber or the preburners. You have one ASI for the main chamber and one ASI for each preburner.

Those spark plugs in the SSME look like this:



See also here:

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/20...ESENTATION.pdf

Last edited by Urwumpe; 10-30-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 10-30-2017, 09:52 PM   #13
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Thanks for the clarification, the SSME still amazes me.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:25 AM   #14
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This is the "older" Vulcain I believe, but still one of my favorite videos showing the insides of such engine
https://youtu.be/tyq6WSvlB-M?t=2m
For all non German speaking folks that do not know that show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Sendung_mit_der_Maus
I hope sometime an english version would be made of this.
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Old 11-01-2017, 10:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuddel View Post
 This is the "older" Vulcain I believe, but still one of my favorite videos showing the insides of such engine
https://youtu.be/tyq6WSvlB-M?t=2m
For all non German speaking folks that do not know that show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Sendung_mit_der_Maus
I hope sometime an english version would be made of this.
A documentary on n-tv lately also showed how the combustion chambers of the Vulcain engine are made. Pretty complex process.
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