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Old 06-11-2016, 08:48 PM   #1
DaveS
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Default SSU Development thread (4.0 to 5.0)

I thought I would start this thread to centralize all the VC update discussions and I'll to do by quoting GLS's MDU reply from the main development thread:

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 So I started the "MFD revolution" in the Orbiter2016 branch (should we create a SSU 4.0 to 5.0 thread for this?) by making a very very simple MFD for the Centaur vessel to display the info up to now shown in the HUD. It uses the 'T' key so it will not work with the keyboard as it collides with CRTMFD, but as when this is all done the CRTMFD will not be accessible from the Centaur (or anywhere else), this conflict will solve itself.
In the future we can have all kinds of pretty drawings in there, but for now I think just the numbers works fine.
IUS is next, and then the CRTMFD which will have to be done in parts: move the MFD into the vessel, change to sketchpad, add D3D9 goodies, move the subsystem displays into the MDU class (not in this particular order).
Is there anything mesh-wise that needs to change for best possible performance with the new MDUs?

Last edited by DaveS; 08-21-2016 at 07:27 PM. Reason: I decided to rename the thread since it has turned into a generic 4.0 to 5.0 dev discussion
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:51 PM   #2
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 Is there anything mesh-wise that needs to change for best possible performance with the new MDUs?
Not sure, we could of course for example improve the event timers and MET clocks, which are really consuming a lot of FPS.
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:54 PM   #3
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 Not sure, we could of course for example improve the event timers and MET clocks, which are really consuming a lot of FPS.
In what way do they need to improved? Don't they already use the same technique as the new TBs?
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:57 PM   #4
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 In what way do they need to improved? Don't they already use the same technique as the new TBs?
AFAIR not yet, but they should. Same for the RCS/OMS propellant indicators.
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:59 PM   #5
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 AFAIR not yet, but they should. Same for the RCS/OMS propellant indicators.
OK. Anything else while I'm at it?
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Old 06-11-2016, 09:08 PM   #6
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 OK. Anything else while I'm at it?
Not sure, would need to check it...for example the warning lights. I think it is already using the new standard.

Technically, we don't need any blitting operation in SSU except the CRTs and even there it is only temporary needed.

What I would like to suggest is separating SSU development directory and the Orbiter directory used for testing and libraries, using a deploy script to make sure that we also test according to the files we are going to include in a release. I have a test of this here on my PC for another project and it works fine with 2010 and 2016.
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Old 06-11-2016, 10:49 PM   #7
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I was thinking about when we get the panels all separated and fix all the little problems that exist in the vc, we should also upgrade all the (remaining) talkbacks, lights and LEDs to the "UV-system".
I remember seeing some images of the new Orbiter version in which the vc panels on the default Atlantis had a back light. We could at least get the new panels ready for that when they are separated, so in the future that can be done "easily". A thing that stopped me from already upgrading some lights is that in the real vehicle, the light intensity is controllable. I don't know if/how that is possible to do in the new Orbiter, but if it is possible we should at least plan for it.
About the current 7-disp LED lights, a vc component will have to be crafted for them to "automate" displaying stuff (I still haven't sat down to fully think it ), and the mesh groups that already exist will have to be resized as I think they are overlapping each other.
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Old 06-11-2016, 10:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLS View Post
 I was thinking about when we get the panels all separated and fix all the little problems that exist in the vc, we should also upgrade all the (remaining) talkbacks, lights and LEDs to the "UV-system".
I remember seeing some images of the new Orbiter version in which the vc panels on the default Atlantis had a back light. We could at least get the new panels ready for that when they are separated, so in the future that can be done "easily". A thing that stopped me from already upgrading some lights is that in the real vehicle, the light intensity is controllable. I don't know if/how that is possible to do in the new Orbiter, but if it is possible we should at least plan for it.
I already researched this feature, but on the DG in Orbiter beta, it used an undocumented mesh flag. If I would know how this all works, I would implement it on SSU as well. But right now, I can't guarantee it to work.
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Old 06-11-2016, 10:57 PM   #9
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About the MDU screens, currently they are 2 parts ("main" display and menu)... I don't really see the point in that, and anyway we need to manually the menu completly if we are to do it like the real think.

Another thing that I don't think is going to be easy, is making the vc structure (no panels) such that we can then have the correct overhead panel configuration on Columbia. They were a bit different due to the ejection panels.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:00 PM   #10
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 About the MDU screens, currently they are 2 parts ("main" display and menu)... I don't really see the point in that, and anyway we need to manually the menu completly if we are to do it like the real think.

Another thing that I don't think is going to be easy, is making the vc structure (no panels) such that we can then have the correct overhead panel configuration on Columbia. They were a bit different due to the ejection panels.
Its a legacy of the MFD implementation of Orbiter, for supporting standard orbiter MFDs. Not needed if we do away with generic MFDs.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 I already researched this feature, but on the DG in Orbiter beta, it used an undocumented mesh flag. If I would know how this all works, I would implement it on SSU as well. But right now, I can't guarantee it to work.
If we need time to "learn" things, then I say we wait on the vc upgrade, and when we're ready we do it in one go. There are plenty of other things to do in the meantime.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:09 PM   #12
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 If we need time to "learn" things, then I say we wait on the vc upgrade, and when we're ready we do it in one go. There are plenty of other things to do in the meantime.
Sorry, I have to disagree. There is no reason right now to do it all in one large step. We can afford smaller steps and we should do so. Should we need dramatic changes to the mesh for panel lighting, we should do so. But right now, it looks like we don't have to worry, the DG meshes in the beta are not showing magic.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:12 PM   #13
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 Its a legacy of the MFD implementation of Orbiter, for supporting standard orbiter MFDs. Not needed if we do away with generic MFDs.
I haven't thought about how it will work with just one texture, but I think it has to be done somehow. Right now in the MFD world, we can get a better CRTMFD without "making many waves", by changing to sketchpad and by making it SSU-specific. The single texture thing should be done with the vc panel upgrade.

---------- Post added at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Sorry, I have to disagree. There is no reason right now to do it all in one large step. We can afford smaller steps and we should do so. Should we need dramatic changes to the mesh for panel lighting, we should do so. But right now, it looks like we don't have to worry, the DG meshes in the beta are not showing magic.
Like I said, I don't know the specifics of that "new technology" and if we can use it or not. If we can use it, and since we are going to be touching pretty much every texture in the vc, I think it's a waist of time to do that process twice.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:15 PM   #14
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 Like I said, I don't know the specifics of that "new technology" and if we can use it or not. If we can use it, and since we are going to be touching pretty much every texture in the vc, I think it's a waist of time to do that process twice.
Sure, but we also inflate the risks. Without some kind of automatic quality assurance, I would not recommend trying something like that. Better keep the steps as big as we can test them.
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:28 PM   #15
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The VC needs updating just to fit the current orbiter mesh. Currently the the aft flight deck doesn't line up properly with the orbiter. These screenshots shows it well.



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