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Old 09-10-2019, 01:48 PM   #31
4throck
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Been following the flow of fake news about this landing with much interest.
I think its the first time it happens for a space mission, at least on this scale.

Just take a look here:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/in...msg1990973#new

Even specialized forums have nonsense speculation going around.
Any clue about what's happening here? Why target this mission in particular ?
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:05 PM   #32
Artlav
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Wait, what is the fake part again?
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 Even specialized forums have nonsense speculation going around.
Any clue about what's happening here? Why target this mission in particular ?
Sure this is fake news and not just "lost in translation"?
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:40 PM   #34
4throck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlav View Post
 Wait, what is the fake part again?
This has been mentioned:
- A thermal image showing the probe
- It landed unbroken but tilted
- Unexpected lunar gravity
- No communications because the antenna is not pointing at Earth / orbiter


Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Sure this is fake news and not just "lost in translation"?
Yes, it could be bad translation. But Japanese missions also suffer from that...
I just don't remember seeing so much odd stuff related to a single mission.


Anyway, lets wait for official information.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:02 AM   #35
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Default NASA Probe to Fly Over India's Moon-Landing Site Tuesday

https://www.space.com/india-moon-lan...-nasa-lro.html

I've been fine tuning a scenario to predict when LRO next passed near (about 4-5 km) the center of the primary landing ellipse...and came up with 2019/09/17, 13:41 UT.

From the linked article:

Quote:
The Chandrayaan-2 orbiter has spotted Vikram from above, and mission controllers continue to try establishing communications with the craft, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) officials announced last week. But updates have been few and far between, and ISRO has not yet published any photos of Vikram on the lunar surface.
I wonder if ISRO will publish tomorrow and beat NASA...
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:06 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 Sure this is fake news and not just "lost in translation"?
English is a national language of India, so it's likely that much of the information we're getting has not been translated (though some people in ISRO may speak English natively and others as a second language, so the degree to which they say what they intend to say may vary), at least when we're looking at English-language news on the subject.

---------- Post added 09-17-19 at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was 09-16-19 at 23:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 This has been mentioned:
- A thermal image showing the probe
This I find at least halfways plausible.

Quote:
- It landed unbroken but tilted
I don't find this credible at all, though the impact velocity from the altitude at which things went wonky is low enough that I could see the debris being all in one pile and maintaining enough cohesion to look intact from orbit.

Quote:
- Unexpected lunar gravity
I'm not sure what is meant here.

Quote:
- No communications because the antenna is not pointing at Earth / orbiter
Halfways plausible, depending on the nature of the power source. I could imagine an RTG surviving a crash at those velocities, and if nothing pulled out or severed electrical wires, solid-state electronics tends to be fairly impact-resistant (heck, the printed circuit board was invented for use in proximity fuses for anti-aircraft shells. Being fired out of a gun is equivalent to a crash at a km/s or so, much harder than the impact in this case), so the probe's computer might still be operating. I think there's also a good chance the antenna would have survived and might still have power, though it almost certainly would not be pointed in the correct direction. As such, there's a non-negligible chance that communication could be reestablished. Note, however, that this does not mean that we'd be able to get any more information out of the probe other than "I can still recognize and respond to communications". Any experiments or sensors that rely on moving parts are almost certainly inoperative, and while most solid state equipment will have physically survived, the chances of any given power or data connection not having been cut in the crash is probably 50/50 at best.

That said, a lot of this sounds like ISRO trying to save face.
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:29 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linguofreak View Post
 English is a national language of India, so it's likely that much of the information we're getting has not been translated (though some people in ISRO may speak English natively and others as a second language, so the degree to which they say what they intend to say may vary), at least when we're looking at English-language news on the subject.

From what I can tell from observing my Indian coworkers, English is just lingua franca in India, but many Indians constantly translate it into their own Indian local language and back all the time in their mind.



Which is really annoying if you expect them to translate German into English mentally when learning German, and they actually don't.
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:28 AM   #38
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A friend of mine described it as "One nation divided by several common languages". Apparently people do speak english and hindi as common languages, but the dialects and accents vary greatly between regions making it really hard to understand.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 From what I can tell from observing my Indian coworkers, English is just lingua franca in India, but many Indians constantly translate it into their own Indian local language and back all the time in their mind.



Which is really annoying if you expect them to translate German into English mentally when learning German, and they actually don't.
I've heard of several cases of ethnic Indians raised in India that were native English speakers, and I personally know at least one Indian that reports that he learned English as his mother tongue in India (from birth to age six, when he moved to the US and started learning American English, I think he said). Granted, that's not a horribly common situation (on the order of 100k speakers in the whole country, according to a quick check of Wikipedia), but it seems to be reasonably common among the upper classes, and I'd expect the types of people who make statements for a space agency to be upper class.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:33 AM   #40
4throck
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Lets wait for LRO and see in fact what happened. Says something about NASA open culture. We should have that picture soon.
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:41 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linguofreak View Post
 on the order of 100k speakers in the whole country, according to a quick check of Wikipedia
Just for comparison: The Indian tech company that owns my employer now, has already 143,900 employees (And its not even among the 20 biggest Indian companies)
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:24 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4throck View Post
 Lets wait for LRO and see in fact what happened. Says something about NASA open culture. We should have that picture soon.

Nope. Too many shadows - too close to dusk.

https://www.space.com/lro-fails-see-...er-vikram.html

Time's running out for the lander...

https://www.space.com/india-moon-lan...nning-out.html
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Old 09-23-2019, 08:36 AM   #43
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That space.com article is mostly speculation...

Here's a more direct source about LROC imaging (from the same author ) :
https://www.leonarddavid.com/indias-...yaan-2-lander/

Relevant statement from NASA:
“The LROC team will analyze these new images and compare them to previous images to see if the lander is visible (it may be in shadow or outside the imaged area). LRO will next fly over the landing site on October 14 when lighting conditions will be more favorable. NASA will make the results of the Sept. 17 flyover available as soon as possible after a necessary period of validation, analysis, and review.”


My take on this is that they have some lander candidates on the Sept. 17 image, but need the Oct. 14 to be certain. Makes sense to me
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Old 09-27-2019, 11:11 AM   #44
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Here's the September image:
https://www.lroc.asu.edu/posts/1128

Happy lander hunting
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