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Old 02-05-2017, 07:53 PM   #16
4throck
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Crazy question: is there some way to render the UI using HTML+CSS.
A responsive layout would be the best way to handle multiple resolutions
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:12 PM   #17
jedidia
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Crazy question: is there some way to render the UI using HTML+CSS.
There would be a way, but yes, it's crazy. Basically it would require an implementation of HTML/css on top of sketchpad, which comes with several caveats where sketchpad just isn't able to do all the thigs it would need to, and it would be much more complicated than we need it to be (not to mention really, really slow). The thought did cross my mind at some point, which is why I can immediately list off the problems.

Also, css is one of the worst GUI-toolkits I've ever worked with. As somebody once pointed out, "the problem with css is the cascading, and the sheets!"

Game UIs in general don't do dynamic responsiveness. They do at loadup to various degrees, and as mentioned, this is possible to implement in our GUI toolkit with some modifications that have to be made anyways. But the big difference here is that games (and IMS2 as well) pre-render their UI, because redrawing it is way too resource hungry when you need every bit you can get to run the realtime 3d stuff. If IMS2 would be using sketchpad to draw the UI dynamically instead of just to render bitmaps once and then blitting them, the loss in framerate would be in the double digits when there's lots of redraws going on.
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:47 PM   #18
crisbeta
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For now only a small bug: I lost all the fuel when splitting a vessel (disassemble).

I tested launches from Earth for small subobital stages and 2 stage suborbital (2 IMS2 vessels docked). I had some problems setting docked vessel on the launch pad without flipping out on one side, but this shouldn't be a concern for now because Orbiter 2016 patch will contain some modifications for landed vessels.

Also a vessels with landing gear deployed seems to be more unstable than with landing gear retracted (not a concern for now; see above).

IMS2-alpha is very stable (more stable that IMS-RC9). I like the way you implemented IMS2; this is a more general approach than IMS1 (module, properties, functions), wich opens the code to almost everything.

Very nice job I hope you will find time to continue with this wonderful add-on.
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Old 02-11-2017, 11:03 PM   #19
jedidia
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For now only a small bug: I lost all the fuel when splitting a vessel (disassemble).
Whoops, will have a look at that.

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I tested launches from Earth for small subobital stages and 2 stage suborbital (2 IMS2 vessels docked).
Interesting experiment. Not exactly what IMS2 is built for. We have zero aerodynamics, and not really any planed.

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Orbiter 2016 patch will contain some modifications for landed vessels.
It will? You seem to know more than I do

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Also a vessels with landing gear deployed seems to be more unstable than with landing gear retracted (not a concern for now; see above).
Define unstable, please. Unstable as in "doesn't stand right on the pad", or "crashes more often"?

Quote:
IMS2-alpha is very stable (more stable that IMS-RC9). I like the way you implemented IMS2; this is a more general approach than IMS1 (module, properties, functions), wich opens the code to almost everything.
Yeah, that was pretty much the plan. Just wait until you'll be able to build subsystems into modules during runtime
Thanks for the nice words!

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I hope you will find time to continue with this wonderful add-on.
Finding time right now, as a matter of fact.
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:58 PM   #20
Dantassii
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Default Update on Tester Dantassii

Last summer (2018) my Windows 7 computer suffered a video card crash due to a game (Space Engineers) overloading the video card when the video card drivers got updated. It appears that some of the periferal chips got MELTED due to an incompatibility between the video drivers and the game.

Anyway, I purchased a brand new Windows 10 computer, and have just this summer (2019) finally got around to installing the Release version of Orbiter 2016 w/Dx9.

New computer:
AMD Threadripper, 32 core CPU w/liquid H2O cooling
32 Gb RAM
GForce 1080Ti video card with 11Gb of vRAM
2 monitors (22" and 23" wide screens)
SSD primary drive
7200 RPM secondary drive

In other words, this is a BEAST!

Running Orbiter 2016 w/Dx7 took my video card to 75-90% usage according to Taskmanager. When I ran Dx9, the video usage went to 25% or less. CPU usage looks like it maxes out at 3 cores (out of 32). And memory usage is not even registering.

In the near future I plan on downloading IMS2-Alpha-1 (plus it dependencies) and see if I can get it to work.

Any other news in the 2 years since there was a post on this thread?

Dantassii
HUMONGOUS IMS shipbuilder (who is just itching to see how BIG an IMS ship he can build on this new computer)
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:56 AM   #21
jedidia
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Any other news in the 2 years since there was a post on this thread?
No, unfortunately not. I soldiered on until pretty much exactly a year ago, and finally admitted to myself that I don't have the motivation anymore to see this through about 6 months ago.

The reason behind this is that a) I'm coding for a living now, so coding in my spare time has reduced somewhat. But the major issue was that I had to face the fact that if I still want to earn a living by coding in 10 years, even the code I write in my spare time must have some form of future value. Either by playing with technologies related to my field, or by putting time into code that has a chance to eventually be marketable.

Both are not true for IMS. C++ isn't a technology for which there will be much demand in the future (especially not for someone that has never written actual production code in it, and in my current area of work that won't happen on any scale significant enough to matter), and I wouldn't even be legally allowed to turn it into a marketable product, even when disregarding the fact that there would never be enough money in it to feed a family.

So, sadly, I had to let the project go. It's a pity, there's a lot of really cool code in there that I'm pretty proud of. Essentially a whole semi-responsive UI framework (with the option for xml layouting and styling) for Orbiter is hidden in there, the event handler works pretty well for sharing data in a complex object-rich add-on, the animation statemachine is really cool, and the light-weight statefull power simulation is quite possibly the single-most complex piece of code I ever wrote. But then, I never even got around to integrating that anymore.

Since there wasn't much interest in the project, I never announced anything, but you and Peter would have deserved a shout-out. The both of you put a lot of testing hours into this, and letting them go to waste is what saddens me the most. But by the time I reached the decision it seemed you both had moved on from the board.

The code is still there, though, and will be for as long as Github is around, so if anybody wants to pick up on it, I could rovide some help coming to terms with the pretty complex architecture of the whole thing. Or maybe I'll pick it up again when I retire, who knows?

Thanks for the hours you invested, and sorry to let you down.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:16 AM   #22
Dantassii
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I kinda thought that's what had happened.

If it is any consolation, almost exactly what you are going through is what I've been going through practically my entire career. Until my current project came along, I was unable to work on any software development effort outside of my job without signing over all rights and ownership of whatever code I wrote or tested to my current employer. They owned EVERYTHING I touched no matter that it had nothing to do with my current job.

My current project (and the 3 companies I've worked for while on it) has been a completely different situation. The companies were not the 'we own everything you even think about when it comes to computer code' types and my current company is the one I will more than likely retire from on about 6 years.

As I stated in my last post, I have a brand spanking new computer, so all my SVN information (for the latest version of Orbiter 2016 beta) and GitHub (for the latest version of IMS 2.0) are now on a dead computer.

Some questions:
1. Does development of IMS 2.0 require that it be done against the Orbiter 2016 beta or can it be done against the current released version of Orbiter 2016?
2. You posted instructions somewhere (where?) for how to setup GitHub on a new computer. Where are they (I've lost the link), and will they work on Windows 10?
3. Once I get a current copy of what's been done, would it be possible for me to get an 'what were you working on at the exact moment you stopped' update so I know what needs to be worked on 1st?

IMS is pretty much the only reason I even run Orbiter (any version). I've been playing Space Engineers for the last 3 years because it's the closest thing to IMS that there is. It has VERY unrealistic physics, and many game-like features that my Aerospace Engineering degrees find offensive. But the game (and it is just a game), allows me to do what I wanted to do when I grew up.

I may not get a lot of time to work on this until I retire, but my retirement date is rapidly approaching (2025), and I would love to see this completed, or at least brought to Beta testing.

Dantassii
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Old 08-09-2019, 01:28 PM   #23
jedidia
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Until my current project came along, I was unable to work on any software development effort outside of my job without signing over all rights and ownership of whatever code I wrote or tested to my current employer.
Wow. Like... WAT? Is that even legal?
I can even work on my own code *in the office* (off the clock, of course), because the boss likes to have me around when a server explodes somewhere...

Quote:
1. Does development of IMS 2.0 require that it be done against the Orbiter 2016 beta or can it be done against the current released version of Orbiter 2016?
Huh... honestly, I'm not sure anymore. I think it should work fine with default 2016, and I'm not sure how well it does on the current beta, given that it's been a while since I ran it.

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2. You posted instructions somewhere (where?) for how to setup GitHub on a new computer. Where are they (I've lost the link), and will they work on Windows 10?
Well, you don't install github. That would make about as much sense as installing sourceforge. Github is a repository. Git is the source control tool that you install to manage your code (like svn, mercurial, whatever). Looks like I did indeed make a short instruction on how to check out the code:
https://www.orbiter-forum.com/group....scussionid=468

Quote:
Once I get a current copy of what's been done, would it be possible for me to get an 'what were you working on at the exact moment you stopped' update so I know what needs to be worked on 1st?
It's generally visible in Gits commit log. I was doing some major refactoring on the loading stuff I think, having written some model-binding glue code to make working with config files a bit easier.
Here's the commit history of the development branch:
https://github.com/TheNewBob/IMS2/commits/develop

As far as I can see I left it in a pretty clean state, with the other branches merged in. The last thing I did was refactoring the power simulation *out* of the code into its own library, which is here:
https://github.com/TheNewBob/GenericElectrics

Which reminds me, you'll also need the libs of Oparse and Olog to build the thing:
https://github.com/TheNewBob/Oparse
https://github.com/TheNewBob/Olog

So that can now just be cloned and added to the project as a lib, way cleaner this way since it's completely independant code. Actually using that library to start implementing power managment would have been the next step, but I'd not recommend you to start there... That stuff be complicated as hell, and currently ill-documented.
If you just want to play around with it a bit, I'd suggest starting with something like a simple module that does a simple thing and has a UI. I think that's currently the best way to get familiar with the overall architecture. Unfortunately the guide I once wrote is not quite up to date anymore, especially where the UI is concerned, but it's still the best starting point.

Last edited by jedidia; 08-09-2019 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 08-09-2019, 03:40 PM   #24
Dantassii
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I'm wrapping up my b-day week today (I took the whole week off and I turn 54 today). And tomorrow (Saturday) I have quite a bit planned, so I'll probably get started on this on Sunday.

I probably will have to find and download the current free-version of Visual Studio 2013, or has Orbiter been upgraded to a newer version of VS?

Dantassii
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:19 AM   #25
jedidia
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I probably will have to find and download the current free-version of Visual Studio 2013
The project files are for VS 2017, so I'd recommend using at least that version. Importing to higher versions usually is no problem, importing into older versions... not so much.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:21 AM   #26
Dantassii
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Also.

The add-on that IMS 2.0 requires has a requirement for Spacecraft3.dll, however, only Spacecraft4.dll is available any more. Is Spacecraft4 100% backwards compatible with Spacecraft3?

Dantassii
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:08 PM   #27
jedidia
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Also.

The add-on that IMS 2.0 requires has a requirement for Spacecraft3.dll, however, only Spacecraft4.dll is available any more. Is Spacecraft4 100% backwards compatible with Spacecraft3?
Oh, you don't need spacecraft3 (nor 4). IMS2 just uses the meshes from those add-ons so I didn't have to make any myself.
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