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Old 02-12-2018, 09:44 AM   #16
Urwumpe
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Originally Posted by Face View Post
 Heaven forbids it, but if something happens to you ("bus-factor" is called so for a reason), you can't open-source it anymore. Is there at least a second person holding the sources, Loru perhaps?
Here its called "struck by lightning".
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:08 AM   #17
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 That's quite the buzzkill
Come on folks, we've had the discussion multiple times on open vs. closed frameworks that most of the addons depend on, and there is plenty of evidence now. What did you expect?
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:10 AM   #18
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The propper orbiter terminology should of course be "swallowed by a black hole"...

Thanks a lot for that DBeachy, that is one essential library to scratch off.
Just in case you are contemplating coming up with a UMMU replacement, I'd be on board to help. I'll need it something like a year down the road myself.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:17 AM   #19
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I'll give XRSound a spin later for a small test. But yes, before making it an essential part of an add-on, I would prefer it to be open-source as well.

(But thats nothing a good makefile and some preprocessor code can't solve)

Last edited by Urwumpe; 02-12-2018 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Urwumpe View Post
 I'll give XRSound a spin later for a small test. But yes, before making it an essential part of an add-on, I would prefer it to be open-source as well.

(But thats nothing a good makefile and some preprocessor code can't solve)
What worries me a bit is this part of the license:(emphasis mine)
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You may not charge a fee of any kind to use this software, nor may you use this software for any commercial purpose or run this software in a public exhibit or public simulator, regardless of the terms governing the Orbiter instance on which it is running, without express written permission signed by the author and sent via hardcopy letter or fax; i.e., an email is not sufficient to grant permission.
If I understand that right, you are not allowed to run Orbiter with XRSound as sound platform in e.g. an educational public simulator or even as a kiosk on a science fair without getting a formal permission. Is that due to the voice actress being involved in the call-outs?
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:33 AM   #21
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O-F Staff note: The content of the latest posts were not related to this topic. Please stay on topic.

Last edited by IronRain; 02-12-2018 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:26 PM   #22
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Well, it's not XRMMu (dbeachy1 wouldn't let me have the name! ) but there is a MMU framework being worked on - the current documentation is here oMMU API, for this first release I'm aiming to just have the basic features of crew management implemented (EVAs, Ingress, Egress, etc), anything more advanced like any action area style interactions or cargo handling features will have to wait until a later version. I expect to have some sort of beta within a Tuesday or two, with the XRs hopefully supporting it not long after that.

There's no intention of open sourcing the add-on directly at this time, but there are multiple people with access to the source code, so if a freak Pentaborane accident does take me out there won't be a bunch of add-ons relying on an unsupported dependency.
Thanks to Loru for creating the awesome oMMU logo!

Last edited by Woo482; 02-12-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Woo482 View Post
 Well, it's not XRMMu (dbeachy1 wouldn't let me have the name! ) but there is a MMU framework being worked on - the current documentation is here oMMU API, for this first release I'm aiming to just have the basic features of crew management implemented (EVAs, Ingress, Egress, etc), anything more advanced like any action area style interactions or cargo handling features will have to wait until a later version.


Hurrah for this effort, too!
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Face View Post
 What worries me a bit is this part of the license:(emphasis mine)


If I understand that right, you are not allowed to run Orbiter with XRSound as sound platform in e.g. an educational public simulator or even as a kiosk on a science fair without getting a formal permission. Is that due to the voice actress being involved in the call-outs?
The intention is to not charge a fee to use XRSound without express permission, but a free public simulator would be fine. I will tweak the license text to clarify in the next beta. The bottom line is, "Don't be a dick."
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:08 PM   #25
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This just made my week. Lack of OSound and UMMU support in O2016 has kept me from really getting back into Orbiter.

Thanks to all of you for your work on both of these projects!
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:50 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Face View Post
 Heaven forbids it, but if something happens to you ("bus-factor" is called so for a reason), you can't open-source it anymore. Is there at least a second person holding the sources?
From thinking about this and talking about it with Woo482 and Xyon, and in the interests of putting the community's mind at ease, what I'll do going forward is zip-encrypt up all the XRSound source files and send download links to both Woo482 and Xyon so they can download the XRSound source and keep it locally on their systems (and view it, of course), but not post it publicly. That way, if I'm "hit by a bus", one of them can release the source to the community, and that way XRSound can be maintained indefinitely. I will also re-upload the latest source for them to download after every XRSound release. And, of course, if Martin wants a copy of the source, I'll be happy to send him the download info and password, too.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:19 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Woo482 View Post
 {image}
Well, it's not XRMMu (dbeachy1 wouldn't let me have the name! ) but there is a MMU framework being worked on - the current documentation is here oMMU API, for this first release I'm aiming to just have the basic features of crew management implemented (EVAs, Ingress, Egress, etc), anything more advanced like any action area style interactions or cargo handling features will have to wait until a later version. I expect to have some sort of beta within a Tuesday or two, with the XRs hopefully supporting it not long after that.

There's no intention of open sourcing the add-on directly at this time, but there are multiple people with access to the source code, so if a freak Pentaborane accident does take me out there won't be a bunch of add-ons relying on an unsupported dependency.
Thanks to Loru for creating the awesome oMMU logo!
Really great news Woo482,I am looking foward to the future of orbiter once more,thanks to you,Loru,and all involved in the making of oMMU.
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:59 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by dbeachy1 View Post
 From thinking about this and talking about it with Woo482 and Xyon, and in the interests of putting the community's mind at ease, what I'll do going forward is zip-encrypt up all the XRSound source files and send download links to both Woo482 and Xyon so they can download the XRSound source and keep it locally on their systems (and view it, of course), but not post it publicly. That way, if I'm "hit by a bus", one of them can release the source to the community, and that way XRSound can be maintained indefinitely. I will also re-upload the latest source for them to download after every XRSound release. And, of course, if Martin wants a copy of the source, I'll be happy to send him the download info and password, too.
Another update: I finished updating my XRSound packaging script to also package up the XRSound source tree and Visual Studio project files to an encrypted zip file. I've pushed the zip file to my server and sent both Woo482 and Xyon the download link and the password for the zip, so now it will be easy going forward to keep the XRSound source zip file, and therefore Woo482's and Xyon's copies they download, up-to-date*.

* I guess that means I can now cross the street without fearing buses...
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:19 AM   #29
T1234
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The lack of ummu, ucgo is really keeping me from Orbiter 2016, as I like to land and do stuff.I would be happy to contribute.The UMMUFA addon allows all vessels to take ummu and to be EVA'd from an airlock,so could that be implemented?
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:47 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dbeachy1 View Post
 Another update: I finished updating my XRSound packaging script to also package up the XRSound source tree and Visual Studio project files to an encrypted zip file. I've pushed the zip file to my server and sent both Woo482 and Xyon the download link and the password for the zip, so now it will be easy going forward to keep the XRSound source zip file, and therefore Woo482's and Xyon's copies they download, up-to-date*.

* I guess that means I can now cross the street without fearing buses...
Besides having an open-source alternative, this is as good as it gets. Thank you.

And besides your ease of mind regarding street traffic, it will certainly even more encourage people to use XRSound as sole sound platform for their addons.
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