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Low Frame rate with MFD's turned on. Issue Tools
issueid=448 06-23-2010 06:48 AM
Gen 1:1
Low Frame rate with MFD's turned on.

Has anyone else seen this with Orbiter 2010?

With both MFD's turned off, my FPS is 85.

With one turned on, it drops to 15.

With both, it drops to 5.

I've tried this on a clean install, BTW.

My computer specs:

ASUS A7N266-VM motherboard AGP4X 266 MHz bus
2400+ AMD Athlon XP Processor
64MB GeForce4 Titanium-4200 Video card
Windows XP Home Edition
Issue Details
Issue Type Feedback
Project ORBITER: 2010-P1 and newer
Status Open
Priority 5 - Medium
Regarding Version 100606 (2010 Release)
Regarding Version (none)
Users who agree 3
Users who disagree 0
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

07-04-2010 03:45 PM
Addon Developer
 
Maybe this is related:

This is the frame rate data for the first 202 seconds of the "DG Stunts" playback. The scenario was played twice and the graphs were saved. The only difference between the second flight was that the in flight annotations were disabled.


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07-09-2010 01:44 PM
Orbiter Founder
 
Have any of the above problems changed in the 100704 beta?

If you are experiencing differences in frame rate between VC and 2D cockpit mode, can you also report if there are any differences between the default DG 2D cockpit and the 2D cockpits of any other vessels (e.g. default Shuttle-A)? The 2D-panel cockpit of the default DG uses a new rendering method (it's essentially a flat VC), so I would be interested if there are any performance differences between the stock DG 2D panel and the "traditional" 2D panels.
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07-10-2010 02:11 AM
JEL JEL is offline
Addon Developer
 
Testing 100606 vs 100704:

No change with regard to the micro-freezing/stuttering that occur whenever the mfd's update. It's most noticable in 2D view actually, and not so much in virtual or bitmap.
Setting the mfd update-rate to 10fps (0.1) yields rather severe stuttering.



Framerates with HUD visible and 2 mfd's open (surface & map):

Orbiter 100704 / 100606

Stock DG:
2D: 144 / 131
bmp: 146 / 133
VC: 150 / 144

ShuttleA:
2D: 101 / 96
bmp: 92 / 85
VC: 69 / 68



Framerates with HUD visible and no mfd's open:

Orbiter 100704 / 100606

Stock DG:
2D: 160 / 149
bmp: 155 / 144
VC: 155 / 148

ShuttleA:
2D: 113 / 108
bmp: 96 / 93
VC: 70 / 70


The used scenario in both cases was:
Scenarios/Shuttle-A/Shuttle-A Moon.scn (where it's parked at brighton base)
I altered it to test the DG by removing the shuttle-A and it's payloads. Exactly how much that difference in number of vessels in itself impacts the fps I don't know.

Running in window-mode at 1914x1052x32 with FoV at 50 (That's the ingame-info reported by Orbiter where it also says the fps. On the launch-pad it says 1920x1080)

The test was run with a clean installation with no sound or addons added (only the beta files was added to one of the installs ofcourse)
All check-boxes on the 'parameters' and 'visual effects' tabs of the launchpad was ticked on, except the mfd-transparency. No modules or joystick was activated.

Video-mode is direct3D T&L HAL

System: win7 x64, i7 920, with an ATI radeon HD5700


JEL
Reply
07-12-2010 06:23 PM
Orbiter Founder
 
Ok according to your numbers, with MFDs open you do get a slight drop in average frame rates, but not an unreasonable one. So I take it that the main concern is the "stutter" during MFD update.
  • Is this stutter only perceptible with the map MFD open, or does it occur with any combination of MFDs?
  • Was the stutter also present in orbiter 2006 (on the same computer) or is it any worse in orbiter 2010 (excluding Map MFD)?
There may not be all that much I can do about this problem. Asynchronous updates of the MFDs in a separate thread (which would be the obvious solution) isn't trivial to implement, because GDI functions aren't threadsafe. I did try to implement a threaded solution when designing the new Map MFD mode, but eventually had to give up on it. If somebody comes up with a non-GDI drawing system (using the new Sketchpad framework), I may look into threaded MFD updates again.

Edit: Interestingly, the 100704 beta is slightly faster in your test, so removing the colour key reference does seem to have an effect.
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07-13-2010 12:41 AM
JEL JEL is offline
Addon Developer
 
The surface-mfd and the HSI-mfd are the 2 I get the most stutter from (mainly the surface-mfd). None of the other mfd's (including the map-mfd) seem to have any noticable impact.

It's only when the mfd's are visible, and during their update-process, they induce stutter. If I set them to only update once every 10 seconds I only get a short freeze-frame once every 10 seconds.

My computer is only a few months old, so I hadn't run orbiter2006 on it until now that you ask for a comparison. Previously I ran orbiter2006 on a winXP 32bit machine with a geforce 7600GT graphics-card, where I never had any stuttering at all (not even when having the mfd's update 10 times per second)

But test-running orbiter2006 on the new machine, I got the same stuttering (with the same 2 mfd's) which indicates clearly that this problem is system related (IE my new machine does things differently than my old one) and not specifically related to orbiter2010. I guess that's good news
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07-16-2010 03:06 PM
Tex Tex is offline
O-F Administrator
 
Okay, I think I might have found a source for poor frame rates, at least in my case. With my monitor being 24" I run resolution at 1920x1200. It seems everyone I've talked to who gets good frame rates in Orbiter 2010, even with Map MFD up and fast MFD refresh rates, all had lower resolutions. Vash did some tests with me the other day and confirmed when he increased the resolution setting the performance dropped off significantly. Perhaps its something to do with the way Orbiter is rendering things on high resolution widescreen monitors? What ever the problem is, its most frustrating and will not allow me to record at decent frame rates to make movies.
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07-16-2010 03:25 PM
Crazy dude with a rocket
 
just no have it noted, i'm getting this issue too...

particularly, VCs with GDI-based surfaces seem most problematic, quick tests with the HyperDart spaceplane and my G42 Starliner showed a dump of about ~30fps when going from external to VC view... dropping from 60+ to 28~26 FPS as the MFDs were running

yet, all these situations included the surface MFD being open, the G42, which showed the most noticeable impact was running the HSI as well...


i did not try these ships without any of the above mentioned MFDs... so i can't confirm as to this is or not being aggravated by the additional VC panels (i'll check tonight)


the stock DG had the least problems, not sure why... but after i noticed this problem on the other two vessels, i realised the DG also took a hit from this, only to a lesser extent


like Tex, i too use a hi-def monitor, though not as high, at 1680x1050x32 resolution
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07-16-2010 05:06 PM
orb orb is offline
O-F Administrator
Ninja
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex
 Okay, I think I might have found a source for poor frame rates, at least in my case. With my monitor being 24" I run resolution at 1920x1200. It seems everyone I've talked to who gets good frame rates in Orbiter 2010, even with Map MFD up and fast MFD refresh rates, all had lower resolutions.
Not me. I get very good frame rates with 2048x1536 on my 22" CRT monitor, even with ClearType and 8xQ MSAA - usually more than 80 FPS in VC or glass cockpit (NVidia GF8800GTS-640), but that's on Windows XP 32 bit. Turning off ClearType improves FPS by only 10%, and turning off antialiasing increases FPS 2 times in the same scene conditions.
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07-16-2010 06:25 PM
Crazy dude with a rocket
 
what about windows? i hadn't noticed any problems before i switched to 7... in XP the MFDs didn't really cause any performance hit at all....

could that be related to this?
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07-17-2010 01:10 AM
Orbinaut
 
So, in an effort to give Martin more information, I re-examined the Orbiter installs I was using to test both cases.

I had VistaBoost activated on my copy of 2006P2, but not on 2010.

Installing VistaBoost into Orbiter 2010 initially seemed to have eliminated the stuttering that I was seeing while displaying the Surface/Map/HSI MFDs, and to a lesser extent, any other MFD.

However, even with VistaBoost installed, opening an External MFD in ORbiter 2010 causes a *huge* drop in framerates and the stuttering returns.

This does not occur in 2006P2 - as long as VistaBoost is activated, External MFDs cause no significant performance hit.

So I still feel like something is up with the way MFDs are using resources compared to the rest of Orbiter, even after the potential effects of ClearType are removed from the equation.

Folks using 2010 for the first time on Vista or 7 should install VistaBoost and activate it, it works fine in 2010.
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07-17-2010 01:44 AM
Crazy dude with a rocket
 
could there be a way of getting GDI acceleration back in win7? some form of "legacy mode" or something?

or perhaps something like an emulation module that bypasses GDI calls to directdraw? dunno... i'm just thinking out loud...


strange... according to this they made changes that should have made GDI -faster- in windows 7.... perhaps in comparison to Vista, but still shy of XP performance?

it's worth reading tho... apparently, developers should pay attention to some changes and write their stuff accordingly
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07-17-2010 04:28 AM
Tex Tex is offline
O-F Administrator
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orb
 Not me. I get very good frame rates with 2048x1536 on my 22" CRT monitor, even with ClearType and 8xQ MSAA - usually more than 80 FPS in VC or glass cockpit (NVidia GF8800GTS-640), but that's on Windows XP 32 bit. Turning off ClearType improves FPS by only 10%, and turning off antialiasing increases FPS 2 times in the same scene conditions.
Exactly, I did too on Windows XP 32 bit, but with Windows 7 64 bit its considerably worse.
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07-17-2010 07:46 AM
Beta Tester
 
Maybe DirectX 7 is just too old to run properly on Windows 7.
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07-17-2010 10:49 AM
Addon Developer
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarmonik
 Maybe DirectX 7 is just too old to run properly on Windows 7.
Yes. It is after all, 11 years old and it doesn't change much with the subsequent releases(DX8 and DX9, they were released in 2000 and 2002 respectively). Maybe upgrading to DX9 would give some improvement but I'm afraid that Windows XP is really starting to show its age.
Reply
07-17-2010 04:06 PM
Gen 1:1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex
 Okay, I think I might have found a source for poor frame rates, at least in my case. With my monitor being 24" I run resolution at 1920x1200. It seems everyone I've talked to who gets good frame rates in Orbiter 2010, even with Map MFD up and fast MFD refresh rates, all had lower resolutions. Vash did some tests with me the other day and confirmed when he increased the resolution setting the performance dropped off significantly. Perhaps its something to do with the way Orbiter is rendering things on high resolution widescreen monitors? What ever the problem is, its most frustrating and will not allow me to record at decent frame rates to make movies.
The original numbers I gave in post #1 were based on 1024x768.
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07-17-2010 08:26 PM
Tex Tex is offline
O-F Administrator
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarmonik
 Maybe DirectX 7 is just too old to run properly on Windows 7.
I tend to agree with you here, I'm sure this is the biggest issue which Hielor addresses in this article:

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7356
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01-18-2016 04:36 PM
Orbinaut
 
I was having the same issues with "stuttering" video. After changing color depth from 32 to 16 it resolved itself
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