Comments

**SiberianTiger** · #1

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5983401.ece

Quote:

Russian police have long suffered from an image problem, with a reputation for brutality, corruption and professional incompetence.

Now a new initiative aims to turn them into model professionals who will no longer accept bribes, drink on the job or even cheat on their wives. Their transformation from corrupt cops into courteous public servants is set out in a strict code of professional ethics drawn up by the Interior Ministry.

I expect icons in the Orthodox churches to be repainted soon with images of Policemen...

**Orbinaut Pete** · 03-27-2009, 10:31 AM

No swearing, no drinking....

Even British police swear - and we have the oldest Police force in the world!
Actually, I think we invented the Police force...

Anyway, I suspect that the Russian Police force will be recieving less applicants next year...

**Urwumpe** · 03-27-2009, 10:58 AM

Well...if that is enough for turning it into a professional police force... I have some doubts.

The latest stories out of Sotchi don't sound too good, regarding the use of physical violence in the mayor election campaign and the closely related Olympic games bid. Could the police risk arresting a friend of the governor or a friend of the president or are they still too weak to enforce the law even against the powerful? Or are they even just a tool to suppress opposition?

That needed impartiality is the main attribute of a respected police. Behind the badge, you are one of THE police and not a single weak police man. Your actions not only represent the police (which is tried to be improved by the code of conduct), but the police also represents you, while in duty. Even if you are the most fair, most incorruptible and most friendly policeman in town - you will get judged by the actions of other people in uniform.

**SiberianTiger** · 03-27-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwumpe

The latest stories out of Sotchi don't sound too good, regarding the use of physical violence in the mayor election campaign and the closely related Olympic games bid. Could the police risk arresting a friend of the governor or a friend of the president or are they still too weak to enforce the law even against the powerful?

Since you mentioned that, I personally believe that Sotchi Olympics Project is the black hole that swallowed the Russian Mars Expedition space ship, along with some other things... I can't see how refurbishing an elite resort territory and building a sports infrastructure for the rich can improve economy of the region, let alone the whole country's. Instead, it's a great opportunity for relocation of budget (taxed from taxpayers and all kinds of customs passers) money to private pockets... And so there is a heated battle over whose the pockets will turn out to be.

However, I'd love to see Nemtsov in the position of Mayor of Sothci. That will be a great practical test of Russian opposition's honesty and ability to stay unabsorbed into the ladder of power.

Back to the topic, there are million stories not related Sotchi and not drawing public attention on the West. But if at least somebody in the Police would live up the image defined by the proposed law... Darn, that would be good. Another problem is their professional effectiveness, and it's related to the problem of corruption too. My only hope is that enforcing this law won't require making a special agency or futher boosting of number of bureaucrats in charge of that. At least, not too much of that, please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwumpe

Or are they even just a tool to suppress opposition?

No, they are just the first line who takes the initial hit. And aren't very happy about their role in this. We all are upbrought on kid's books of heroic revolutionairies fighting Czar's Gendarmes. Few wouldn't feel uncomfortable when experienceing a collision between one's duty and one's conscience when hitting your neighbour with a rubber baton... That's why they have to relocate special police forces from another end of the country when another riot is flashing out.

**Urwumpe** · 03-27-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiberianTiger

However, I'd love to see Nemtsov in the position of Mayor of Sothci. That will be a great practical test of Russian opposition's honesty and ability to stay unabsorbed into the ladder of power.

My personal experience with opposition parties suddenly switching to the government (German Green Party), was that they learn quickly to be as annoying as the old government... but well, it was worth the fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiberianTiger

Back to the topic, there are million stories not related Sotchi and not drawing public attention on the West. But if at least somebody in the Police would live up the image defined by the proposed law... Darn, that would be good. Another problem is their professional effectiveness, and it's related to the problem of corruption too. My only hope is that enforcing this law won't require making a special agency or futher boosting of number of bureaucrats in charge of that. At least, not too much of that, please.

Well, maybe it also depends a lot on the level of federalism. Here in Germany, the police forces are pretty independent of the federal government, with only the federal police units being directly under control of the government. How is it in Russia? are the police units controlled by federal government or by the local governors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiberianTiger

No, they are just the first line who takes the initial hit. And aren't very happy about their role in this. We all are upbrought on kid's books of heroic revolutionairies fighting Czar's Gendarmes. Few wouldn't feel uncomfortable when experienceing a collision between one's duty and one's conscience when hitting your neighbour with a rubber baton... That's why they have to relocate special police forces from another end of the country when another riot is flashing out.

Yikes. Ok, that makes it harder to be a cop. We have similar methods for dealing with riots, usually attempting to get police units on the scene, from where the rioters come, and which are familiar with the groups. But this does also often backfire... one unit from Berlin earned a pretty bad reputation in the Heiligendamm protests for being excessively brutal and escalating - so much, that other police units openly critized them for their contraproductive behavior in the media (which is something which did not happen often in the history of the FRG).

**SiberianTiger** · 03-27-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urwumpe

are the police units controlled by federal government or by the local governors?

To put it simple, the Public Security Police and Road Police report to local Governors, while the Criminal Police is subject to the central subordination (Government).

**garyw** · 03-27-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbinaut Pete

No swearing, no drinking....

Even British police swear - and we have the oldest Police force in the world!
Actually, I think we invented the Police force...

Anyway, I suspect that the Russian Police force will be recieving less applicants next year...

Yes, we did. Or more precisely Robert Peel did. This is why police officers are sometimes called "Bobbies" (Bob being a shortened version of Robert).

**Urwumpe** · 03-27-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyw

Yes, we did. Or more precisely Robert Peel did. This is why police officers are sometimes called "Bobbies" (Bob being a shortened version of Robert).

Which brings us to some rules for police officers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

ar81 · 03-27-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiberianTiger

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5983401.ece

I expect icons in the Orthodox churches to be repainted soon with images of Policemen...

The best way to do it.
Educate newcomer units with such a culture.
Any newcomer should adapt to the new culture.
When new culture people are the most, you may start mixing them with old timers and you may have a collision of cultures.
Political/managerial level support of that culture is essential.
People need to learn about the advantages of such culture.

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03-27-2009, 10:31 AM	#2
Orbinaut Pete ISSU Project Manager	No swearing, no drinking.... Even British police swear - and we have the oldest Police force in the world! Actually, I think we invented the Police force... Anyway, I suspect that the Russian Police force will be recieving less applicants next year...

03-27-2009, 10:58 AM	#3
Urwumpe Donator	Well...if that is enough for turning it into a professional police force... I have some doubts. The latest stories out of Sotchi don't sound too good, regarding the use of physical violence in the mayor election campaign and the closely related Olympic games bid. Could the police risk arresting a friend of the governor or a friend of the president or are they still too weak to enforce the law even against the powerful? Or are they even just a tool to suppress opposition? That needed impartiality is the main attribute of a respected police. Behind the badge, you are one of THE police and not a single weak police man. Your actions not only represent the police (which is tried to be improved by the code of conduct), but the police also represents you, while in duty. Even if you are the most fair, most incorruptible and most friendly policeman in town - you will get judged by the actions of other people in uniform.

03-27-2009, 11:41 AM	#4
SiberianTiger News Sifter	Quote: Originally Posted by Urwumpe The latest stories out of Sotchi don't sound too good, regarding the use of physical violence in the mayor election campaign and the closely related Olympic games bid. Could the police risk arresting a friend of the governor or a friend of the president or are they still too weak to enforce the law even against the powerful? Since you mentioned that, I personally believe that Sotchi Olympics Project is the black hole that swallowed the Russian Mars Expedition space ship, along with some other things... I can't see how refurbishing an elite resort territory and building a sports infrastructure for the rich can improve economy of the region, let alone the whole country's. Instead, it's a great opportunity for relocation of budget (taxed from taxpayers and all kinds of customs passers) money to private pockets... And so there is a heated battle over whose the pockets will turn out to be. However, I'd love to see Nemtsov in the position of Mayor of Sothci. That will be a great practical test of Russian opposition's honesty and ability to stay unabsorbed into the ladder of power. Back to the topic, there are million stories not related Sotchi and not drawing public attention on the West. But if at least somebody in the Police would live up the image defined by the proposed law... Darn, that would be good. Another problem is their professional effectiveness, and it's related to the problem of corruption too. My only hope is that enforcing this law won't require making a special agency or futher boosting of number of bureaucrats in charge of that. At least, not too much of that, please. Quote: Originally Posted by Urwumpe Or are they even just a tool to suppress opposition? No, they are just the first line who takes the initial hit. And aren't very happy about their role in this. We all are upbrought on kid's books of heroic revolutionairies fighting Czar's Gendarmes. Few wouldn't feel uncomfortable when experienceing a collision between one's duty and one's conscience when hitting your neighbour with a rubber baton... That's why they have to relocate special police forces from another end of the country when another riot is flashing out.

03-27-2009, 11:57 AM	#5
Urwumpe Donator	Quote: Originally Posted by SiberianTiger However, I'd love to see Nemtsov in the position of Mayor of Sothci. That will be a great practical test of Russian opposition's honesty and ability to stay unabsorbed into the ladder of power. My personal experience with opposition parties suddenly switching to the government (German Green Party), was that they learn quickly to be as annoying as the old government... but well, it was worth the fun. Quote: Originally Posted by SiberianTiger Back to the topic, there are million stories not related Sotchi and not drawing public attention on the West. But if at least somebody in the Police would live up the image defined by the proposed law... Darn, that would be good. Another problem is their professional effectiveness, and it's related to the problem of corruption too. My only hope is that enforcing this law won't require making a special agency or futher boosting of number of bureaucrats in charge of that. At least, not too much of that, please. Well, maybe it also depends a lot on the level of federalism. Here in Germany, the police forces are pretty independent of the federal government, with only the federal police units being directly under control of the government. How is it in Russia? are the police units controlled by federal government or by the local governors? Quote: Originally Posted by SiberianTiger No, they are just the first line who takes the initial hit. And aren't very happy about their role in this. We all are upbrought on kid's books of heroic revolutionairies fighting Czar's Gendarmes. Few wouldn't feel uncomfortable when experienceing a collision between one's duty and one's conscience when hitting your neighbour with a rubber baton... That's why they have to relocate special police forces from another end of the country when another riot is flashing out. Yikes. Ok, that makes it harder to be a cop. We have similar methods for dealing with riots, usually attempting to get police units on the scene, from where the rioters come, and which are familiar with the groups. But this does also often backfire... one unit from Berlin earned a pretty bad reputation in the Heiligendamm protests for being excessively brutal and escalating - so much, that other police units openly critized them for their contraproductive behavior in the media (which is something which did not happen often in the history of the FRG).

03-27-2009, 12:13 PM	#6
SiberianTiger News Sifter	Quote: Originally Posted by Urwumpe are the police units controlled by federal government or by the local governors? To put it simple, the Public Security Police and Road Police report to local Governors, while the Criminal Police is subject to the central subordination (Government).

03-27-2009, 12:49 PM	#7
garyw O-F Administrator	Quote: Originally Posted by Orbinaut Pete No swearing, no drinking.... Even British police swear - and we have the oldest Police force in the world! Actually, I think we invented the Police force... Anyway, I suspect that the Russian Police force will be recieving less applicants next year... Yes, we did. Or more precisely Robert Peel did. This is why police officers are sometimes called "Bobbies" (Bob being a shortened version of Robert).

03-27-2009, 12:53 PM	#8
Urwumpe Donator	Quote: Originally Posted by garyw Yes, we did. Or more precisely Robert Peel did. This is why police officers are sometimes called "Bobbies" (Bob being a shortened version of Robert). Which brings us to some rules for police officers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

03-27-2009, 06:17 PM	#9
ar81 Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by SiberianTiger http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5983401.ece I expect icons in the Orthodox churches to be repainted soon with images of Policemen... The best way to do it. Educate newcomer units with such a culture. Any newcomer should adapt to the new culture. When new culture people are the most, you may start mixing them with old timers and you may have a collision of cultures. Political/managerial level support of that culture is essential. People need to learn about the advantages of such culture.