Project G42-200 StarLiner - Page 33 - Orbiter-Forum

River Crab · 05-01-2011, 02:23 AM

Might it be easier to just allow for either pilot/no pilot meshes in the config file? If UMmu is to be supported, you might want to show the ship empty when there's no one inside, anyway. If there is a config file, that is.

Eli13 · 05-01-2011, 02:45 AM

Might be cool if it came with its own custom ummu meshes like the XR-2 did. Just as something for some competition.

Manichean · 05-01-2011, 08:18 AM

Personally, I'm against helmets. You only have to have a helmet in case of a cabin atmosphere leak, and that cockpit looks like it should be a shirt-sleeve environment anyway. (You could compensate for a leak anyway by just blowing in air at the same rate until you fix it. If you can't do that because your leak is too big, you have other problems anyway

)

Wishbone · 05-01-2011, 08:24 AM

Launch is a wrong time to be shirt-sleeved, methinks.

Interceptor · 05-01-2011, 09:20 AM

How about an option to be able to have the pilots put on,or take off their helmets.That way you would be able to launch with the helmets on,and when in space take off the helmets,or maybe you could make this animation automatic.

**Grover** · 05-01-2011, 10:12 AM

Like the DGIV seatbelt sign

Manichean · 05-01-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wishbone

Launch is a wrong time to be shirt-sleeved, methinks.

I think it doesn't really matter. If something goes catastrophically wrong during any flight phase, the only real option you have is to preserve the craft at all cost. During launch and reentry, even the tiniest leak would probably rip the craft apart (see Columbia). If you'd have to "bail out", it would pretty much be suicide...

**Grover** · 05-01-2011, 12:24 PM

well there are a few scenarios where wearing a life support suit could save your life. for example, if you got a small hull breach as you left the atmosphere (perhaps a small piece of space debris), you would die without it. and with your suit on, you would be able to survive untill you could perform an EVA close to a space station and ingress to safety. then the crippled ship could either stay close to recieve repairs, or be de-orbited to destroy it

either way, suits have uses, but in MOST cases, you're dead anyway.

Moach · 05-01-2011, 03:27 PM

ok... progress update...

it seems i won't be able to make it for WIP-1 still this weekend (considering today is sunday already)...
the reason for that is a problem i found in the oxidizer supply system... aparently, it was leaking through the ramcaster... quite odd, if i may say so...
anyways, that's kinda fixed now - but this bizarre problem had led me to believe the settings for the engines and fuel were right when they really weren't...

so i had to set it all up again... which i believe i'm getting close to right now... (needs more flight testing, which takes time)

well, it's going well - not as well as i initially though, but we're rolling

just might be one or two days more before i can pack up for WIP-1....

the seat-belt sign was a good call! i had though of it, but i think i forgot about it when i drew up the cockpit map

- i'll find somewhere to put that later

cheers, space-ppl!

Spacethingy · 05-01-2011, 05:12 PM

Moach, don't do yourself and your wonderful add-on the dishonour of not releasing it on Tuesday...

Just out of interest, how easy would it be to have "active textures", as it were, each mesh choosing a different texture for different circumstances.

I'm thinking along the lines of passengers' faces changing depending on the situation - like neutral for normal, pained for high G's, or dead for... dead.

Is this possible?

T.Neo · 05-01-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

During launch and reentry, even the tiniest leak would probably rip the craft apart (see Columbia). If you'd have to "bail out", it would pretty much be suicide...

There's a reason why Shuttle and Soyuz crew members wear pressure suits for launch and landing. There can be several situations where a pressure suit can save your life- as the crew of Soyuz 11 learnt the hard way.

Still, I don't know if pressure suits would be practical for normal operations in this vehicle... presumably it is rated for plainclothes (or near-plainclothes) for launch and landing.

**Grover** · 05-01-2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spacethingy

Moach, don't do yourself and your wonderful add-on the dishonour of not releasing it on Tuesday...

Just out of interest, how easy would it be to have "active textures", as it were, each mesh choosing a different texture for different circumstances.

I'm thinking along the lines of passengers' faces changing depending on the situation - like neutral for normal, pained for high G's, or dead for... dead.

Is this possible?

Yes, just change the mesh, a little difficult, but nothing compared to what moach has done already

HarvesteR · 05-01-2011, 06:38 PM

One argument for the shirt-sleeve thing, is that, being a space plane, there isn't so much a launch, as there is a take-off... actual rocket-powered flight only happens on the final leg of the ascent, so there should be plenty of time to discover pressure leaks and other problems...

We don't see airline pilots wearing ACES suits (thankfully), so why should G42 pilots wear them?

Essentially, the G42 is a LEO-liner, so it should, theoretically, be rated for unpressurized suit for it's crew

Cheers

Moach · 05-01-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarvesteR

One argument for the shirt-sleeve thing, is that, being a space plane, there isn't so much a launch, as there is a take-off... actual rocket-powered flight only happens on the final leg of the ascent, so there should be plenty of time to discover pressure leaks and other problems...

We don't see airline pilots wearing ACES suits (thankfully), so why should G42 pilots wear them?

Essentially, the G42 is a LEO-liner, so it should, theoretically, be rated for unpressurized suit for it's crew

Cheers

that was pretty much my line of thinking...
in a spaceplane, you're (thankfully) not strapped atop a large pile of highly volatile substances that combust violently in a "controlled" explosion which we almost sadistically call a "launch"

so that somewhat removes a lot of the stress associated with these situations... a takeoff in the G42 (which i've done quite a few times, by now) doesn't just feel close to an airliner takeoff - it feels EXACTLY like so

with the recently revised FD settings (proper wing area and aspect ratio), we even have the "rotate" speed at just over 160 knots, not unlike a heavy airliner...

i have also had a major insight about what was keeping us from reaching orbit before the tanks became full of nothing

- get this:
Orbiter doesn't account for fuel and oxidizer, it's thruster model is based on a single "propellant" mass value...

in order to accomodate the existance of oxidizer in a separate tank aboard the G42, i added another tank, and "manually" emptied it out proportionally to the oxy/fuel ratio as the engines ran in rocket mode...

what i didn't pay attention to, is that Orbiter drains the tanks based on an ISP value (which is actually measured in effective exhaust vel, for some reason) - so by emptying out the oxy tank "manually" - i failed to account that the engines ISP was set for a single propellant source, burning away ignorant of the fact that a large portion of the "propellant" feed should be, in theory, coming from the other tank....

for that reason, the engines chugged away as if fuel and oxidizer were both the same and stored in that one tank.... i had programmed the oxy tank to empty out accordingly, so it just followed along

anyways - what i found is that when simulating a multi-tank feed system like this, the engines ISP value should be set higher than its specification, higher in the same proportion as the oxy/fuel ratio

and with this, i got results a LOT closer to what one should expect of this ship

i have also found that the G42 should have capacity for a lot more fuel than oxidizer, which would perfectly suit its design requirement to fly a plane-intercept leg before launch (a straight-up launch without such leg should not require a full tank load)

this is good! - i expect the next flight will bring us to space (the right way, this time

)

cheers!

Eli13 · 05-01-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarvesteR

One argument for the shirt-sleeve thing, is that, being a space plane, there isn't so much a launch, as there is a take-off... actual rocket-powered flight only happens on the final leg of the ascent, so there should be plenty of time to discover pressure leaks and other problems...

We don't see airline pilots wearing ACES suits (thankfully), so why should G42 pilots wear them?

Essentially, the G42 is a LEO-liner, so it should, theoretically, be rated for unpressurized suit for it's crew

Cheers

Yeah that'd be freaky, then again with hypersonic airlines around the corner, they might have to.

Anyways, if its closer to being limited like the shuttle (which really isn't limited just compared to futuristic and forgiving spacecraft) it might just be more of a safety precaution rather than something to be practical.
Rather safe than sorry. Especially in space.

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05-01-2011, 02:23 AM	#481
River Crab SpaceX Cheer Captain	Might it be easier to just allow for either pilot/no pilot meshes in the config file? If UMmu is to be supported, you might want to show the ship empty when there's no one inside, anyway. If there is a config file, that is.

05-01-2011, 02:45 AM	#482
Eli13 Fish Dreamer	Might be cool if it came with its own custom ummu meshes like the XR-2 did. Just as something for some competition.

05-01-2011, 08:18 AM	#483
Manichean Orbinaut	Personally, I'm against helmets. You only have to have a helmet in case of a cabin atmosphere leak, and that cockpit looks like it should be a shirt-sleeve environment anyway. (You could compensate for a leak anyway by just blowing in air at the same rate until you fix it. If you can't do that because your leak is too big, you have other problems anyway )

05-01-2011, 08:24 AM	#484
Wishbone Clueless developer	Launch is a wrong time to be shirt-sleeved, methinks.

05-01-2011, 09:20 AM	#485
Interceptor Orbinaut	How about an option to be able to have the pilots put on,or take off their helmets.That way you would be able to launch with the helmets on,and when in space take off the helmets,or maybe you could make this animation automatic.

05-01-2011, 10:12 AM	#486
Grover Saturn V Misfire	Like the DGIV seatbelt sign

05-01-2011, 12:02 PM	#487
Manichean Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Wishbone Launch is a wrong time to be shirt-sleeved, methinks. I think it doesn't really matter. If something goes catastrophically wrong during any flight phase, the only real option you have is to preserve the craft at all cost. During launch and reentry, even the tiniest leak would probably rip the craft apart (see Columbia). If you'd have to "bail out", it would pretty much be suicide...

05-01-2011, 12:24 PM	#488
Grover Saturn V Misfire	well there are a few scenarios where wearing a life support suit could save your life. for example, if you got a small hull breach as you left the atmosphere (perhaps a small piece of space debris), you would die without it. and with your suit on, you would be able to survive untill you could perform an EVA close to a space station and ingress to safety. then the crippled ship could either stay close to recieve repairs, or be de-orbited to destroy it either way, suits have uses, but in MOST cases, you're dead anyway.

05-01-2011, 03:27 PM	#489
Moach Crazy dude with a rocket	ok... progress update... it seems i won't be able to make it for WIP-1 still this weekend (considering today is sunday already)... the reason for that is a problem i found in the oxidizer supply system... aparently, it was leaking through the ramcaster... quite odd, if i may say so... anyways, that's kinda fixed now - but this bizarre problem had led me to believe the settings for the engines and fuel were right when they really weren't... so i had to set it all up again... which i believe i'm getting close to right now... (needs more flight testing, which takes time) well, it's going well - not as well as i initially though, but we're rolling just might be one or two days more before i can pack up for WIP-1.... the seat-belt sign was a good call! i had though of it, but i think i forgot about it when i drew up the cockpit map - i'll find somewhere to put that later cheers, space-ppl!

05-01-2011, 05:12 PM	#490
Spacethingy Keyframe Cop	Moach, don't do yourself and your wonderful add-on the dishonour of not releasing it on Tuesday... Just out of interest, how easy would it be to have "active textures", as it were, each mesh choosing a different texture for different circumstances. I'm thinking along the lines of passengers' faces changing depending on the situation - like neutral for normal, pained for high G's, or dead for... dead. Is this possible?

05-01-2011, 05:28 PM	#491
T.Neo SA 2010 Soccermaniac	Quote: During launch and reentry, even the tiniest leak would probably rip the craft apart (see Columbia). If you'd have to "bail out", it would pretty much be suicide... There's a reason why Shuttle and Soyuz crew members wear pressure suits for launch and landing. There can be several situations where a pressure suit can save your life- as the crew of Soyuz 11 learnt the hard way. Still, I don't know if pressure suits would be practical for normal operations in this vehicle... presumably it is rated for plainclothes (or near-plainclothes) for launch and landing.

05-01-2011, 05:48 PM	#492
Grover Saturn V Misfire	Quote: Originally Posted by Spacethingy Moach, don't do yourself and your wonderful add-on the dishonour of not releasing it on Tuesday... Just out of interest, how easy would it be to have "active textures", as it were, each mesh choosing a different texture for different circumstances. I'm thinking along the lines of passengers' faces changing depending on the situation - like neutral for normal, pained for high G's, or dead for... dead. Is this possible? Yes, just change the mesh, a little difficult, but nothing compared to what moach has done already

05-01-2011, 06:38 PM	#493
HarvesteR Orbinaut	One argument for the shirt-sleeve thing, is that, being a space plane, there isn't so much a launch, as there is a take-off... actual rocket-powered flight only happens on the final leg of the ascent, so there should be plenty of time to discover pressure leaks and other problems... We don't see airline pilots wearing ACES suits (thankfully), so why should G42 pilots wear them? Essentially, the G42 is a LEO-liner, so it should, theoretically, be rated for unpressurized suit for it's crew Cheers

05-01-2011, 08:04 PM	#494
Moach Crazy dude with a rocket	Quote: Originally Posted by HarvesteR One argument for the shirt-sleeve thing, is that, being a space plane, there isn't so much a launch, as there is a take-off... actual rocket-powered flight only happens on the final leg of the ascent, so there should be plenty of time to discover pressure leaks and other problems... We don't see airline pilots wearing ACES suits (thankfully), so why should G42 pilots wear them? Essentially, the G42 is a LEO-liner, so it should, theoretically, be rated for unpressurized suit for it's crew Cheers that was pretty much my line of thinking... in a spaceplane, you're (thankfully) not strapped atop a large pile of highly volatile substances that combust violently in a "controlled" explosion which we almost sadistically call a "launch" so that somewhat removes a lot of the stress associated with these situations... a takeoff in the G42 (which i've done quite a few times, by now) doesn't just feel close to an airliner takeoff - it feels EXACTLY like so with the recently revised FD settings (proper wing area and aspect ratio), we even have the "rotate" speed at just over 160 knots, not unlike a heavy airliner... i have also had a major insight about what was keeping us from reaching orbit before the tanks became full of nothing - get this: Orbiter doesn't account for fuel and oxidizer, it's thruster model is based on a single "propellant" mass value... in order to accomodate the existance of oxidizer in a separate tank aboard the G42, i added another tank, and "manually" emptied it out proportionally to the oxy/fuel ratio as the engines ran in rocket mode... what i didn't pay attention to, is that Orbiter drains the tanks based on an ISP value (which is actually measured in effective exhaust vel, for some reason) - so by emptying out the oxy tank "manually" - i failed to account that the engines ISP was set for a single propellant source, burning away ignorant of the fact that a large portion of the "propellant" feed should be, in theory, coming from the other tank.... for that reason, the engines chugged away as if fuel and oxidizer were both the same and stored in that one tank.... i had programmed the oxy tank to empty out accordingly, so it just followed along anyways - what i found is that when simulating a multi-tank feed system like this, the engines ISP value should be set higher than its specification, higher in the same proportion as the oxy/fuel ratio and with this, i got results a LOT closer to what one should expect of this ship i have also found that the G42 should have capacity for a lot more fuel than oxidizer, which would perfectly suit its design requirement to fly a plane-intercept leg before launch (a straight-up launch without such leg should not require a full tank load) this is good! - i expect the next flight will bring us to space (the right way, this time ) cheers!

05-01-2011, 08:09 PM	#495
Eli13 Fish Dreamer	Quote: Originally Posted by HarvesteR One argument for the shirt-sleeve thing, is that, being a space plane, there isn't so much a launch, as there is a take-off... actual rocket-powered flight only happens on the final leg of the ascent, so there should be plenty of time to discover pressure leaks and other problems... We don't see airline pilots wearing ACES suits (thankfully), so why should G42 pilots wear them? Essentially, the G42 is a LEO-liner, so it should, theoretically, be rated for unpressurized suit for it's crew Cheers Yeah that'd be freaky, then again with hypersonic airlines around the corner, they might have to. Anyways, if its closer to being limited like the shuttle (which really isn't limited just compared to futuristic and forgiving spacecraft) it might just be more of a safety precaution rather than something to be practical. Rather safe than sorry. Especially in space.