General Question AMSO to Mars mission - Orbiter-Forum

MAraujo · 04-24-2009, 03:37 PM

So I decided to see what would happen if the Apollo astronauts decided on a whim to f*** mission control and head off to Mars. That saturnV is such a huge rocket and I wanted to see how far I could push its range. Surprisingly, I found that with some careful planning a one way trip to Mars is definitely possible. After several attempts I finally arrived at the red planet with a full tank on the LEM and a little less than half a tank on the CSM.

Now the to land on Mars. After a few aerobraking orbits, I used the LEM engines to kill my velocity and tried to drop the command module at a shallow angle through the martian atmosphere for a ruff landing. Even though I couldn't get the parachuts to open I could still see it wasn't going to happen (the Martian atmosphere is just too thin). So now I'm trying with the LEM. After some failed attempts I became doubtful that the Lem had enough thrust/fuel to land on the larger body, so I did a little proof of concept by stating on the surface with the LEM and tried to take off (thinking of symmetrical projectile paths), after successfully proving its possible I tried again... So now I can get very close with the LEM, on my best attempt I crashed when I ran out of fuel just at .5 km altitude.

Has anyone tried this?

Anyone have any suggestions?

Has anyone pushed AMSO further than Mars?

the.punk · 04-24-2009, 05:32 PM

Yes I tried this also.
I had the same problem with the LM.

It's not built to land on the mars. that is the problem.

francisdrake · 04-24-2009, 06:03 PM

The picture above is from a 1960s-style Mars excursion module (MEM).
A beta version is availale at
http://home.arcor.de/francisdrakex/download/MEM-0b.zip

However, it would not fit into a Saturn V payload bay, and weighing 60 ton it is considerable heavier than a Lunar LEM (which had about 16 ton).

But it would give you a way to go down from Mars orbit using a heatshield, chutes and landing engines (all activated automatically) and it has an ascend stage that can bring you back to orbit (although barely), which might be considered an advantage

(Try the 'MEM training' scenario in Mars orbit.)

earthorbit · 04-24-2009, 06:41 PM

I tried it long Time ago (2-3 months) and i used a tuned LM.
1. On the top of the LM i put an Apollo LES. (for braking)
2. I attached an EAD (Experimental Antigravity Device, a DGIV Cargo which weights -12 tons.)
With this gadgets landing was very easy... I just crashed 5 times before i could Land the LM.

2552 · 04-24-2009, 08:13 PM

I tried that a few months ago and managed to land the LM on Mars, and even made a playback of it. However, the LM ascent stage can't reach Mars orbit on its own. If you fly it straight up, you get 90km agl before you run out of fuel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAraujo

Has anyone pushed AMSO further than Mars?

Yes, it's possible to follow the Galileo trajectory to Jupiter and orbit it. However, getting into orbit around one of its moons would take probably dozens of flybys of them.

If Jupiter is possible, then probably so is a Jupiter flyby to Saturn, Uranus or Neptune.

Southwell · 05-06-2009, 01:56 AM

I've Flown and reached mars orbit, and i am trying to cheat by turning limited fuel off just for the lem descent and ascent stage, Land MFD just kills me every time. Is it possible to land it with the unlimited fuel???

2552 · 05-06-2009, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southwell

I've Flown and reached mars orbit, and i am trying to cheat by turning limited fuel off just for the lem descent and ascent stage, Land MFD just kills me every time. Is it possible to land it with the unlimited fuel???

No. With a full tank of fuel, the LEM has an acceleration of less than 3.8 m/s (which is Mars's surface gravity). The fuel needs to decrease below about 67% before acceleration reaches 3.8m/s, so if the fuel never decreases due to using unlimited fuel, the LEM will not be light enough to hover near the surface to make a soft landing, and will crash.

04-24-2009, 03:37 PM	#1
MAraujo Orbinaut	AMSO to Mars mission So I decided to see what would happen if the Apollo astronauts decided on a whim to f*** mission control and head off to Mars. That saturnV is such a huge rocket and I wanted to see how far I could push its range. Surprisingly, I found that with some careful planning a one way trip to Mars is definitely possible. After several attempts I finally arrived at the red planet with a full tank on the LEM and a little less than half a tank on the CSM. Now the to land on Mars. After a few aerobraking orbits, I used the LEM engines to kill my velocity and tried to drop the command module at a shallow angle through the martian atmosphere for a ruff landing. Even though I couldn't get the parachuts to open I could still see it wasn't going to happen (the Martian atmosphere is just too thin). So now I'm trying with the LEM. After some failed attempts I became doubtful that the Lem had enough thrust/fuel to land on the larger body, so I did a little proof of concept by stating on the surface with the LEM and tried to take off (thinking of symmetrical projectile paths), after successfully proving its possible I tried again... So now I can get very close with the LEM, on my best attempt I crashed when I ran out of fuel just at .5 km altitude. Has anyone tried this? Anyone have any suggestions? Has anyone pushed AMSO further than Mars?

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04-24-2009, 05:32 PM	#2
the.punk Advanced Orbinaut	Yes I tried this also. I had the same problem with the LM. It's not built to land on the mars. that is the problem.

04-24-2009, 06:03 PM	#3
francisdrake Addon Developer	The picture above is from a 1960s-style Mars excursion module (MEM). A beta version is availale at http://home.arcor.de/francisdrakex/download/MEM-0b.zip However, it would not fit into a Saturn V payload bay, and weighing 60 ton it is considerable heavier than a Lunar LEM (which had about 16 ton). But it would give you a way to go down from Mars orbit using a heatshield, chutes and landing engines (all activated automatically) and it has an ascend stage that can bring you back to orbit (although barely), which might be considered an advantage (Try the 'MEM training' scenario in Mars orbit.)

04-24-2009, 06:41 PM	#4
earthorbit Desktop Crasher	I tried it long Time ago (2-3 months) and i used a tuned LM. 1. On the top of the LM i put an Apollo LES. (for braking) 2. I attached an EAD (Experimental Antigravity Device, a DGIV Cargo which weights -12 tons.) With this gadgets landing was very easy... I just crashed 5 times before i could Land the LM.

04-24-2009, 08:13 PM	#5
2552 Orbinaut	I tried that a few months ago and managed to land the LM on Mars, and even made a playback of it. However, the LM ascent stage can't reach Mars orbit on its own. If you fly it straight up, you get 90km agl before you run out of fuel. Quote: Originally Posted by MAraujo Has anyone pushed AMSO further than Mars? Yes, it's possible to follow the Galileo trajectory to Jupiter and orbit it. However, getting into orbit around one of its moons would take probably dozens of flybys of them. If Jupiter is possible, then probably so is a Jupiter flyby to Saturn, Uranus or Neptune.

05-06-2009, 01:56 AM	#6
Southwell Orbinaut	I've Flown and reached mars orbit, and i am trying to cheat by turning limited fuel off just for the lem descent and ascent stage, Land MFD just kills me every time. Is it possible to land it with the unlimited fuel???

05-06-2009, 04:26 AM	#7
2552 Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Southwell I've Flown and reached mars orbit, and i am trying to cheat by turning limited fuel off just for the lem descent and ascent stage, Land MFD just kills me every time. Is it possible to land it with the unlimited fuel??? No. With a full tank of fuel, the LEM has an acceleration of less than 3.8 m/s (which is Mars's surface gravity). The fuel needs to decrease below about 67% before acceleration reaches 3.8m/s, so if the fuel never decreases due to using unlimited fuel, the LEM will not be light enough to hover near the surface to make a soft landing, and will crash.