Question If/when we colonise another planet, who governs it? - Page 2 - Orbiter-Forum

palebluevoice · 08-17-2012, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielor

Why bring a mining rig when you can bring a handful of guns and steal someone else's mining rig?

Because a mining rig is a mining rig and, well, I hate to reference video games, but if you've ever played Dead Space...lets just say things designed to bust through rocks are potent against flesh and bones.

Ehh; but that is a stupid example, so let me get reeled back in. If there is any real concern of being raided, all you have to do is pack a couple of guns of your own. In the event someone were to steal a mining rig; what profit would there be? If they have any earth presence, it's going to be hell for "Houston", and you can bet they'll be facing a fleet of AA guns, interceptors; the whole nine yards when they get to re-entry. Even if they manage to pull it off; they'll have another colony ship coming a few months later to take back what was stolen.

You would NEED some serious firepower to hold a position on Mars; i.e. a tank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codz

Not that crap again. At around one manned launch every couple years, they aren't exactly a big competiter in manned spaceflight.

I felt embarressed just watching that load of garbage. Why don't news companies take the smallest amount of time to research their stories? If they had, they'd have known that CCDev only extends to the ISS and not all of manned spaceflight.

Ughhh...I stopped watching/boycotted TV after their (lack of)coverage of SOPA. Why would anyone listen to that dull, uniformed mouthpiece for anything is beyond me. If I want efficient news, I'll go on the internet. If I want to relaxingly take in news, I'll read a newspaper. TV? If I want to sit through 15 minutes of commercials that air thousands of times before they're replaced, many of which implant horribly annoying jingles or worse, ruin good songs(Keocera has butchered Beethoven by being cheapskates). How was the Olympics? I have no idea because those greedy jerks didn't allow any of it to be posted online. I would have gladly paid money to watch it online; oh, but no, you have to watch it through the ruthless overlords known as NBC. If the Olympics are an international event, then so is a Madonna concert.

jedidia · 08-17-2012, 06:59 AM

Quote:

You would NEED some serious firepower to hold a position on Mars; i.e. a tank.

Not only that. If you can't take on a nation on earth, you don't provoke war. Hijacking whatever on another planet that belongs to another nations is an act of war back here on earth. You can't keep these things separate. If your nation can't take on the rig owner back home, you better not think about stealing it.

Even if they wouldn't be strictly associated, whichever nations are funding their presence will get the heat. Even if the colony is self sufficient and self governed there would probably still be some fallout on earth based on ethnicities, if the groups weren't completely heterogenous.

Ghostrider · 08-17-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palebluevoice

Because a mining rig is a mining rig and, well, I hate to reference video games, but if you've ever played Dead Space...lets just say things designed to bust through rocks are potent against flesh and bones.

Unfortunately they also tend to be unwieldy, useful mainly in melee situations, and you have a ton of safety features to disable.

My bet is on the off-world Sports Club with its trap-shooting shotguns, its bows and arrows for archery competitions and assorted fencing sabres, swords and foils. You know, the Monty Python would have a field day with this.

APDAF · 08-17-2012, 10:47 AM

Mega-Corporations unfortunately.

Ghostrider · 08-17-2012, 11:18 AM

Well, since nation-states wouldn't probably want the diplomatic fall-out, we'll have Mercs. IN SPACE! Why does this sound familiar?

fsci123 · 08-17-2012, 01:38 PM

Well i would suspect that if it was a scientific base the people that reside there would be governed by the countries they came from. If the base was setup not directly by government but by a group of people with citizenship to a specific country that base could be considered part of the country it came from.

example: If a radical mormon cultist borrowed several billion dollars from his followers and decided to make a base on mars for him and his 12 wives so he can practice polygamy. He wouldnt have to worry about police knocking on his door but he would have to worry about being charged with a host of charges if and when he returns home....

Far far in the future we could see the establishment of well defined national territory on extraterrestrial bodies(i doubt there would be any wars). We could even see the formation of independent states during political crisis back on earth.

example: The world went perfect and the soviet union establishes a base on the moon which at its peak contains 1M people. 1991 soviet union falls apart and in the process the base is given autonomy....

NTpspE · 08-17-2012, 02:00 PM

But as soon as one nation sends any form of military equipment and personnel, every other nation will as well won't they?
Though like Jedidia said, I think crime would be pretty low, because if you stole something, you're basically stuck on Mars, as no one will want to take you back. If that person's happy with staying on Mars, then we'll end up with interplanetary prisons, which require guards, and then further complicates things.

Then we end up with something like Red Faction Lmao!

Ghostrider · 08-17-2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTpspE

But as soon as one nation sends any form of military equipment and personnel, every other nation will as well won't they?

If they have the spacelift capability and the personnel and equipment, they could. of course orbital dynamics being what they are, anyone launching after the first nation will land later and find themselves at a disadvantage, bar some crazy TransX action.

**NukeET** · 08-17-2012, 07:19 PM

Sounds like the debate in the Heinlein novel, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".

FADEC · 08-17-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Codz

At around one manned launch every couple years, they aren't exactly a big competiter in manned spaceflight.

At the present age. When we're going to spread our wings into the universe in future, things may look rather different...

08-17-2012, 01:44 AM	#16
palebluevoice Loud, fat weirdo	Quote: Originally Posted by Hielor Why bring a mining rig when you can bring a handful of guns and steal someone else's mining rig? Because a mining rig is a mining rig and, well, I hate to reference video games, but if you've ever played Dead Space...lets just say things designed to bust through rocks are potent against flesh and bones. Ehh; but that is a stupid example, so let me get reeled back in. If there is any real concern of being raided, all you have to do is pack a couple of guns of your own. In the event someone were to steal a mining rig; what profit would there be? If they have any earth presence, it's going to be hell for "Houston", and you can bet they'll be facing a fleet of AA guns, interceptors; the whole nine yards when they get to re-entry. Even if they manage to pull it off; they'll have another colony ship coming a few months later to take back what was stolen. You would NEED some serious firepower to hold a position on Mars; i.e. a tank. Quote: Originally Posted by Codz Not that crap again. At around one manned launch every couple years, they aren't exactly a big competiter in manned spaceflight. I felt embarressed just watching that load of garbage. Why don't news companies take the smallest amount of time to research their stories? If they had, they'd have known that CCDev only extends to the ISS and not all of manned spaceflight. Ughhh...I stopped watching/boycotted TV after their (lack of)coverage of SOPA. Why would anyone listen to that dull, uniformed mouthpiece for anything is beyond me. If I want efficient news, I'll go on the internet. If I want to relaxingly take in news, I'll read a newspaper. TV? If I want to sit through 15 minutes of commercials that air thousands of times before they're replaced, many of which implant horribly annoying jingles or worse, ruin good songs(Keocera has butchered Beethoven by being cheapskates). How was the Olympics? I have no idea because those greedy jerks didn't allow any of it to be posted online. I would have gladly paid money to watch it online; oh, but no, you have to watch it through the ruthless overlords known as NBC. If the Olympics are an international event, then so is a Madonna concert. Last edited by palebluevoice; 08-17-2012 at 01:56 AM.

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08-17-2012, 06:59 AM	#17
jedidia shoemaker without legs	Quote: You would NEED some serious firepower to hold a position on Mars; i.e. a tank. Not only that. If you can't take on a nation on earth, you don't provoke war. Hijacking whatever on another planet that belongs to another nations is an act of war back here on earth. You can't keep these things separate. If your nation can't take on the rig owner back home, you better not think about stealing it. Even if they wouldn't be strictly associated, whichever nations are funding their presence will get the heat. Even if the colony is self sufficient and self governed there would probably still be some fallout on earth based on ethnicities, if the groups weren't completely heterogenous.

08-17-2012, 10:14 AM	#18
Ghostrider Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by palebluevoice Because a mining rig is a mining rig and, well, I hate to reference video games, but if you've ever played Dead Space...lets just say things designed to bust through rocks are potent against flesh and bones. Unfortunately they also tend to be unwieldy, useful mainly in melee situations, and you have a ton of safety features to disable. My bet is on the off-world Sports Club with its trap-shooting shotguns, its bows and arrows for archery competitions and assorted fencing sabres, swords and foils. You know, the Monty Python would have a field day with this.

08-17-2012, 10:47 AM	#19
APDAF Orbinaut	Mega-Corporations unfortunately.

08-17-2012, 11:18 AM	#20
Ghostrider Orbinaut	Well, since nation-states wouldn't probably want the diplomatic fall-out, we'll have Mercs. IN SPACE! Why does this sound familiar?

08-17-2012, 01:38 PM	#21
fsci123 Addon Developer	Well i would suspect that if it was a scientific base the people that reside there would be governed by the countries they came from. If the base was setup not directly by government but by a group of people with citizenship to a specific country that base could be considered part of the country it came from. example: If a radical mormon cultist borrowed several billion dollars from his followers and decided to make a base on mars for him and his 12 wives so he can practice polygamy. He wouldnt have to worry about police knocking on his door but he would have to worry about being charged with a host of charges if and when he returns home.... Far far in the future we could see the establishment of well defined national territory on extraterrestrial bodies(i doubt there would be any wars). We could even see the formation of independent states during political crisis back on earth. example: The world went perfect and the soviet union establishes a base on the moon which at its peak contains 1M people. 1991 soviet union falls apart and in the process the base is given autonomy....

08-17-2012, 02:00 PM	#22
NTpspE Orbinaut	But as soon as one nation sends any form of military equipment and personnel, every other nation will as well won't they? Though like Jedidia said, I think crime would be pretty low, because if you stole something, you're basically stuck on Mars, as no one will want to take you back. If that person's happy with staying on Mars, then we'll end up with interplanetary prisons, which require guards, and then further complicates things. Then we end up with something like Red Faction Lmao!

08-17-2012, 02:54 PM	#23
Ghostrider Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by NTpspE But as soon as one nation sends any form of military equipment and personnel, every other nation will as well won't they? If they have the spacelift capability and the personnel and equipment, they could. of course orbital dynamics being what they are, anyone launching after the first nation will land later and find themselves at a disadvantage, bar some crazy TransX action.

08-17-2012, 07:19 PM	#24
NukeET Gen 1:1	Sounds like the debate in the Heinlein novel, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".

08-17-2012, 07:39 PM	#25
FADEC Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Codz At around one manned launch every couple years, they aren't exactly a big competiter in manned spaceflight. At the present age. When we're going to spread our wings into the universe in future, things may look rather different...