Project project sorpendarin- redesigned - Page 2 - Orbiter-Forum

**Izack** · 03-06-2012, 12:27 AM

How small do you mean, exactly?

Sorpenderin · 03-06-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izack

How small do you mean, exactly?

so small that the shuttles payload bay would seem like the soalar system.

jedidia · 03-08-2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

ok. is it possible to just have one super small ship. also,does anyone want to help with this project.

Quote:

so small that the shuttles payload bay would seem like the soalar system.

Well, the problem is that no matter how small you make that sip, the shuttle payload bay will never seem like the solar system. Simply for the reason that 1m in Orbiter is still 1m, period. You can't just scale your ship down and think this would somehow change the underlying structure of the universe (or in this case the orbiter engine). Your ship might only be a micrometer large, but that's just cosmetics. It will still have e.g. the same orbital velocity as any usual ship.

I think I understand what you want to do: You want to do a universe that is, in orbiter terms, a solar system: Just that the sun is invisibe and the planets look like galaxies (that will be a problem... planets in Orbiter are sperical, period).

When you get close enough to one of those galaxies, you want to load a new system which is in fact a galaxy: A black hole at the center, and instead of planets you have stars orbiting it. There are several problems with that:
First, it's too many stars. If you want to have a full galaxy, your framerate will break down, and your CPU will come crawling on its knees begging for release after a second, or just shoot itself. You can't have several billion orbital objects in one system, period.

The next step would be that you load an actual solar system when you come close to a star, which is a piece of cake, except you have to generate it and, most annoyingly, have to have textures for the planets. Orbiter Galaxy solves that by the gracious support of StarGen and Artlav, but the solution is not quite optimal and you'll run into the same problems as I did.

Anyways, both the Universe and the Galaxy face a problem, which is scale. Which you seem to want to address by making the ship smaller. This won't work, as everything will still behave the same. Your ship will just get invisible, because such small objects will fall right through the camera's clipping plane.

There's no way to simulate what you want realistically in Orbiter. ou can still pull it off, but it will be more like an abstract, stylised universe.

Or, you could take your project idea and try to realise it for Spaceway instead. Well, come to think about it, Spaceway actually is a big junk of your project idea already realised very, very well. You won't have special relativity, and it would certainly be very difficult to get it in there, but it would still be easier than getting it into orbiter, considering that spaceway is open source.

**Galactic Penguin SST** · 03-08-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedidia

Well, the problem is that no matter how small you make that sip, the shuttle payload bay will never seem like the solar system. Simply for the reason that 1m in Orbiter is still 1m, period. You can't just scale your ship down and think this would somehow change the underlying structure of the universe (or in this case the orbiter engine). Your ship might only be a micrometer large, but that's just cosmetics. It will still have e.g. the same orbital velocity as any usual ship.

I think I understand what you want to do: You want to do a universe that is, in orbiter terms, a solar system: Just that the sun is invisibe and the planets look like galaxies (that will be a problem... planets in Orbiter are sperical, period).

When you get close enough to one of those galaxies, you want to load a new system which is in fact a galaxy: A black hole at the center, and instead of planets you have stars orbiting it. There are several problems with that:
First, it's too many stars. If you want to have a full galaxy, your framerate will break down, and your CPU will come crawling on its knees begging for release after a second, or just shoot itself. You can't have several billion orbital objects in one system, period.

The next step would be that you load an actual solar system when you come close to a star, which is a piece of cake, except you have to generate it and, most annoyingly, have to have textures for the planets. Orbiter Galaxy solves that by the gracious support of StarGen and Artlav, but the solution is not quite optimal and you'll run into the same problems as I did.

Anyways, both the Universe and the Galaxy face a problem, which is scale. Which you seem to want to address by making the ship smaller. This won't work, as everything will still behave the same. Your ship will just get invisible, because such small objects will fall right through the camera's clipping plane.

There's no way to simulate what you want realistically in Orbiter. ou can still pull it off, but it will be more like an abstract, stylised universe.

Or, you could take your project idea and try to realise it for Spaceway instead. Well, come to think about it, Spaceway actually is a big junk of your project idea already realised very, very well. You won't have special relativity, and it would certainly be very difficult to get it in there, but it would still be easier than getting it into orbiter, considering that spaceway is open source.

Well, I'm not sure if a nine years old child can understand your response (I definitely don't)....

So here's my "translation":
You computer can't handle so many planets: most programs can only do that one planet after one, and if you are making billions of stars, it will hang because the power of one computer is limited (I'm not even sure if this is possible using the most powerful computer in the world!). And shrinking the stars won't solve your problem, because it's still about making billions of stars! You might start with making moons around several planets before skipping to galaxies.

Remember, if you don't know how to do, just ask!

Sorpenderin · 03-08-2012, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galactic Penguin SST

Well, I'm not sure if a nine years old child can understand your response (I definitely don't)....

So here's my "translation":
You computer can't handle so many planets: most programs can only do that one planet after one, and if you are making billions of stars, it will hang because the power of one computer is limited (I'm not even sure if this is possible using the most powerful computer in the world!). And shrinking the stars won't solve your problem, because it's still about making billions of stars! You might start with making moons around several planets before skipping to galaxies.

Remember, if you don't know how to do, just ask!

i do understand it

---------- Post added at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedidia

Well, the problem is that no matter how small you make that sip, the shuttle payload bay will never seem like the solar system. Simply for the reason that 1m in Orbiter is still 1m, period. You can't just scale your ship down and think this would somehow change the underlying structure of the universe (or in this case the orbiter engine). Your ship might only be a micrometer large, but that's just cosmetics. It will still have e.g. the same orbital velocity as any usual ship.

I think I understand what you want to do: You want to do a universe that is, in orbiter terms, a solar system: Just that the sun is invisibe and the planets look like galaxies (that will be a problem... planets in Orbiter are sperical, period).

When you get close enough to one of those galaxies, you want to load a new system which is in fact a galaxy: A black hole at the center, and instead of planets you have stars orbiting it. There are several problems with that:
First, it's too many stars. If you want to have a full galaxy, your framerate will break down, and your CPU will come crawling on its knees begging for release after a second, or just shoot itself. You can't have several billion orbital objects in one system, period.

The next step would be that you load an actual solar system when you come close to a star, which is a piece of cake, except you have to generate it and, most annoyingly, have to have textures for the planets. Orbiter Galaxy solves that by the gracious support of StarGen and Artlav, but the solution is not quite optimal and you'll run into the same problems as I did.

Anyways, both the Universe and the Galaxy face a problem, which is scale. Which you seem to want to address by making the ship smaller. This won't work, as everything will still behave the same. Your ship will just get invisible, because such small objects will fall right through the camera's clipping plane.

There's no way to simulate what you want realistically in Orbiter. ou can still pull it off, but it will be more like an abstract, stylised universe.

Or, you could take your project idea and try to realise it for Spaceway instead. Well, come to think about it, Spaceway actually is a big junk of your project idea already realised very, very well. You won't have special relativity, and it would certainly be very difficult to get it in there, but it would still be easier than getting it into orbiter, considering that spaceway is open source.

phobos isent spherical; its in orbiter. also im going to have 1000 stars in one mini seed wich works the same as a normal seed.

**orb** · 03-08-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorpenderin

phobos isent spherical; its in orbiter.

Phobos' properties in Orbiter are spherical, and only its graphical representation (mesh) isn't spherical.

jedidia · 03-08-2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

also im going to have 1000 stars in one mini seed

I'm afraid that's still too much...

Quote:

phobos isent spherical

What do you know, I never even noticed!

Haven't been there since 2006, looks like 2010 has a native mesh support for planets. That could come in handy for you, yes. And for me... **runs off to make some asteroid meshes for orbiter galaxy**

Sorpenderin · 03-09-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedidia

I'm afraid that's still too much...

how about 100, like a normal seed exept with stars not galaxies

---------- Post added at 10:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

does anyone whant to help me make this addon?
also who likes this idea

Bill Evans · 03-10-2012, 02:54 AM

Hi Sorpenderin,

I'll be happy to help you. Suggest you start by making a 3D model of your spacecraft in Blender. Once you have a rough version, I'll help you post a picture to the forum. I'm presuming you are aiming for making a realistic looking ship.

jedidia · 03-10-2012, 08:48 AM

Quote:

how about 100,

That should work on most machines, I think.

Sorpenderin · 03-10-2012, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedidia

That should work on most machines, I think.

i am glad 100 stars will work. i hope you(or anyone) can help me build this addon now that most of the problems are cleared out.

jedidia · 03-10-2012, 03:34 PM

Most of the problems cleared out? heck no, all we've done so far is a feasibility study. The problems will crop up once you start

And sorry, no, I'm already quite busy with two projects and a birth, the wife will kill me if I get myself into anything else.

Sorpenderin · 03-11-2012, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Evans

Hi Sorpenderin,

I'll be happy to help you. Suggest you start by making a 3D model of your spacecraft in Blender. Once you have a rough version, I'll help you post a picture to the forum. I'm presuming you are aiming for making a realistic looking ship.

thanks. im realy glad you will help. now i can finaly move into the development stages

and yes, i am going to make a realistic ship

Sorpenderin · 03-15-2012, 12:30 AM

i couldent make the ship yet,so i decided to make a galaxy instead.

here is a very bad model of a spiral galaxy:

Bill Evans · 03-15-2012, 02:19 AM

Well I guess it makes sense that you need a galaxy before you make your ship, and I like your rough galaxy model a lot! Took me a second to get your representation of the spiral arms, and I guess the little dots in the toroid are a few stars to get the idea across. I love it! It will be fun for you to look back in 10 years and see if you can find this post. I imagine you will be a master at Blender and other modeling programs by then if you keep at it.

OK, now I can't wait to see your ship!

03-09-2012, 10:17 PM	#23
Sorpenderin Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by jedidia I'm afraid that's still too much... how about 100, like a normal seed exept with stars not galaxies ---------- Post added at 10:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ---------- does anyone whant to help me make this addon? also who likes this idea Last edited by Sorpenderin; 03-09-2012 at 07:49 PM.

03-15-2012, 12:30 AM	#29
Sorpenderin Orbinaut	i couldent make the ship yet,so i decided to make a galaxy instead. here is a very bad model of a spiral galaxy: Attached Thumbnails

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03-06-2012, 12:27 AM	#16
Izack Non sequitur	How small do you mean, exactly?

03-06-2012, 07:32 PM	#17
Sorpenderin Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Izack How small do you mean, exactly? so small that the shuttles payload bay would seem like the soalar system.

03-08-2012, 09:31 AM	#18
jedidia shoemaker without legs	Quote: ok. is it possible to just have one super small ship. also,does anyone want to help with this project. Quote: so small that the shuttles payload bay would seem like the soalar system. Well, the problem is that no matter how small you make that sip, the shuttle payload bay will never seem like the solar system. Simply for the reason that 1m in Orbiter is still 1m, period. You can't just scale your ship down and think this would somehow change the underlying structure of the universe (or in this case the orbiter engine). Your ship might only be a micrometer large, but that's just cosmetics. It will still have e.g. the same orbital velocity as any usual ship. I think I understand what you want to do: You want to do a universe that is, in orbiter terms, a solar system: Just that the sun is invisibe and the planets look like galaxies (that will be a problem... planets in Orbiter are sperical, period). When you get close enough to one of those galaxies, you want to load a new system which is in fact a galaxy: A black hole at the center, and instead of planets you have stars orbiting it. There are several problems with that: First, it's too many stars. If you want to have a full galaxy, your framerate will break down, and your CPU will come crawling on its knees begging for release after a second, or just shoot itself. You can't have several billion orbital objects in one system, period. The next step would be that you load an actual solar system when you come close to a star, which is a piece of cake, except you have to generate it and, most annoyingly, have to have textures for the planets. Orbiter Galaxy solves that by the gracious support of StarGen and Artlav, but the solution is not quite optimal and you'll run into the same problems as I did. Anyways, both the Universe and the Galaxy face a problem, which is scale. Which you seem to want to address by making the ship smaller. This won't work, as everything will still behave the same. Your ship will just get invisible, because such small objects will fall right through the camera's clipping plane. There's no way to simulate what you want realistically in Orbiter. ou can still pull it off, but it will be more like an abstract, stylised universe. Or, you could take your project idea and try to realise it for Spaceway instead. Well, come to think about it, Spaceway actually is a big junk of your project idea already realised very, very well. You won't have special relativity, and it would certainly be very difficult to get it in there, but it would still be easier than getting it into orbiter, considering that spaceway is open source.

03-08-2012, 09:44 AM	#19
Galactic Penguin SST Geek Penguin on Mt. Olympus	Quote: Originally Posted by jedidia Well, the problem is that no matter how small you make that sip, the shuttle payload bay will never seem like the solar system. Simply for the reason that 1m in Orbiter is still 1m, period. You can't just scale your ship down and think this would somehow change the underlying structure of the universe (or in this case the orbiter engine). Your ship might only be a micrometer large, but that's just cosmetics. It will still have e.g. the same orbital velocity as any usual ship. I think I understand what you want to do: You want to do a universe that is, in orbiter terms, a solar system: Just that the sun is invisibe and the planets look like galaxies (that will be a problem... planets in Orbiter are sperical, period). When you get close enough to one of those galaxies, you want to load a new system which is in fact a galaxy: A black hole at the center, and instead of planets you have stars orbiting it. There are several problems with that: First, it's too many stars. If you want to have a full galaxy, your framerate will break down, and your CPU will come crawling on its knees begging for release after a second, or just shoot itself. You can't have several billion orbital objects in one system, period. The next step would be that you load an actual solar system when you come close to a star, which is a piece of cake, except you have to generate it and, most annoyingly, have to have textures for the planets. Orbiter Galaxy solves that by the gracious support of StarGen and Artlav, but the solution is not quite optimal and you'll run into the same problems as I did. Anyways, both the Universe and the Galaxy face a problem, which is scale. Which you seem to want to address by making the ship smaller. This won't work, as everything will still behave the same. Your ship will just get invisible, because such small objects will fall right through the camera's clipping plane. There's no way to simulate what you want realistically in Orbiter. ou can still pull it off, but it will be more like an abstract, stylised universe. Or, you could take your project idea and try to realise it for Spaceway instead. Well, come to think about it, Spaceway actually is a big junk of your project idea already realised very, very well. You won't have special relativity, and it would certainly be very difficult to get it in there, but it would still be easier than getting it into orbiter, considering that spaceway is open source. Well, I'm not sure if a nine years old child can understand your response (I definitely don't).... So here's my "translation": You computer can't handle so many planets: most programs can only do that one planet after one, and if you are making billions of stars, it will hang because the power of one computer is limited (I'm not even sure if this is possible using the most powerful computer in the world!). And shrinking the stars won't solve your problem, because it's still about making billions of stars! You might start with making moons around several planets before skipping to galaxies. Remember, if you don't know how to do, just ask!

03-08-2012, 09:29 PM	#20
Sorpenderin Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Galactic Penguin SST Well, I'm not sure if a nine years old child can understand your response (I definitely don't).... So here's my "translation": You computer can't handle so many planets: most programs can only do that one planet after one, and if you are making billions of stars, it will hang because the power of one computer is limited (I'm not even sure if this is possible using the most powerful computer in the world!). And shrinking the stars won't solve your problem, because it's still about making billions of stars! You might start with making moons around several planets before skipping to galaxies. Remember, if you don't know how to do, just ask! i do understand it ---------- Post added at 09:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ---------- Quote: Originally Posted by jedidia Well, the problem is that no matter how small you make that sip, the shuttle payload bay will never seem like the solar system. Simply for the reason that 1m in Orbiter is still 1m, period. You can't just scale your ship down and think this would somehow change the underlying structure of the universe (or in this case the orbiter engine). Your ship might only be a micrometer large, but that's just cosmetics. It will still have e.g. the same orbital velocity as any usual ship. I think I understand what you want to do: You want to do a universe that is, in orbiter terms, a solar system: Just that the sun is invisibe and the planets look like galaxies (that will be a problem... planets in Orbiter are sperical, period). When you get close enough to one of those galaxies, you want to load a new system which is in fact a galaxy: A black hole at the center, and instead of planets you have stars orbiting it. There are several problems with that: First, it's too many stars. If you want to have a full galaxy, your framerate will break down, and your CPU will come crawling on its knees begging for release after a second, or just shoot itself. You can't have several billion orbital objects in one system, period. The next step would be that you load an actual solar system when you come close to a star, which is a piece of cake, except you have to generate it and, most annoyingly, have to have textures for the planets. Orbiter Galaxy solves that by the gracious support of StarGen and Artlav, but the solution is not quite optimal and you'll run into the same problems as I did. Anyways, both the Universe and the Galaxy face a problem, which is scale. Which you seem to want to address by making the ship smaller. This won't work, as everything will still behave the same. Your ship will just get invisible, because such small objects will fall right through the camera's clipping plane. There's no way to simulate what you want realistically in Orbiter. ou can still pull it off, but it will be more like an abstract, stylised universe. Or, you could take your project idea and try to realise it for Spaceway instead. Well, come to think about it, Spaceway actually is a big junk of your project idea already realised very, very well. You won't have special relativity, and it would certainly be very difficult to get it in there, but it would still be easier than getting it into orbiter, considering that spaceway is open source. phobos isent spherical; its in orbiter. also im going to have 1000 stars in one mini seed wich works the same as a normal seed.

03-08-2012, 09:37 PM	#21
orb O-F Administrator	Quote: Originally Posted by Sorpenderin phobos isent spherical; its in orbiter. Phobos' properties in Orbiter are spherical, and only its graphical representation (mesh) isn't spherical.

03-08-2012, 10:56 PM	#22
jedidia shoemaker without legs	Quote: also im going to have 1000 stars in one mini seed I'm afraid that's still too much... Quote: phobos isent spherical What do you know, I never even noticed! Haven't been there since 2006, looks like 2010 has a native mesh support for planets. That could come in handy for you, yes. And for me... runs off to make some asteroid meshes for orbiter galaxy

03-10-2012, 02:54 AM	#24
Bill Evans Orbinaut	Hi Sorpenderin, I'll be happy to help you. Suggest you start by making a 3D model of your spacecraft in Blender. Once you have a rough version, I'll help you post a picture to the forum. I'm presuming you are aiming for making a realistic looking ship.

03-10-2012, 08:48 AM	#25
jedidia shoemaker without legs	Quote: how about 100, That should work on most machines, I think.

03-10-2012, 02:00 PM	#26
Sorpenderin Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by jedidia That should work on most machines, I think. i am glad 100 stars will work. i hope you(or anyone) can help me build this addon now that most of the problems are cleared out.

03-10-2012, 03:34 PM	#27
jedidia shoemaker without legs	Most of the problems cleared out? heck no, all we've done so far is a feasibility study. The problems will crop up once you start And sorry, no, I'm already quite busy with two projects and a birth, the wife will kill me if I get myself into anything else.

03-11-2012, 12:37 PM	#28
Sorpenderin Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Bill Evans Hi Sorpenderin, I'll be happy to help you. Suggest you start by making a 3D model of your spacecraft in Blender. Once you have a rough version, I'll help you post a picture to the forum. I'm presuming you are aiming for making a realistic looking ship. thanks. im realy glad you will help. now i can finaly move into the development stages and yes, i am going to make a realistic ship

03-15-2012, 02:19 AM	#30
Bill Evans Orbinaut	Well I guess it makes sense that you need a galaxy before you make your ship, and I like your rough galaxy model a lot! Took me a second to get your representation of the spiral arms, and I guess the little dots in the toroid are a few stars to get the idea across. I love it! It will be fun for you to look back in 10 years and see if you can find this post. I imagine you will be a master at Blender and other modeling programs by then if you keep at it. OK, now I can't wait to see your ship!